Getting Drunk

[Guest]

I think im putting this in the right place but not sure. Ok, so iv'e become somewhat newly aware that its a mortal sin to get drunk. Up until the last year or so I didnt even realise what mortal sin was (im 26 so thats bad i know)
So anyhow what is being drunk ? Is it simply blowing over the legal limit ? I dont think this would be the case because the legal limit is quite low and I doubt everyone who blows over it is drunk. Ive been struggling with this and every time iv'e been to confession lately ive confessed getting drunk. Im not sure if I was each time but phatmass has engraved it in my brain the worst thing I could do is go take communion with a mortal sin on me so I figure better safe then sorry.

Im to the polnt now where im sick of confessing the same sin everytime and I also feel that its probally annoying God to. So im gonna try to not drink anymore and I think its going to be really tough but hopefully I can do it, I dunno. I guess my main goal is to stay sober because drinking to much leads to other sin also, enough about my shortcomeings though.

So I guess the question or debate is what is being drunk ? I was just reading in the "lame board " a thread about tequila. Also alot of talk about other drinks and no one had a problem with them being consumed nor do I think they should have. But again, my question is, what is being drunk by the church's standard and is it a mortal sin evertyime one crosses this line? Thanks for any imput, have a good day.

Edited March 24, 2008 by Guest

[knightec]

I always thought that getting drunk was a [i]venial [/i]sin but I could be wrong. Maybe getting drunk just to get drunk is a [i]mortal [/i]sin. I could be wrong.

[goldenchild17]

Fr. Heribert Jone "Moral Theology" Page 110:

"b) Intemperance in drinking which has as its immediate effect the loss of the use of reason is a graver sin that immoderation in eating.

a) Intoxication that results in a partial loss of reason is only a venial sin.

It may be a mortal sin because of scandal, injury to health, harm to one's family, etc.

B) Intoxication that ends in a complete loss of reason is a mortal sin if brought on without a sufficient reason.

Complete loss of reason is presumed in him who can no longer distinguish good from bad, or if, after the drunkenness has passed, he cannot remember what he said or did while under the influence of drink, or if one does a thing which he never would have done when sober.

A sufficient reason to deprive oneself temporarily of his use of reason would be to cure a disease or to counteract blood poisoning and the like. Merely to drive away the blues is not adequate reason."

[Dismas]

[quote name='Catechism of the Catholic Church']1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: "Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."[/quote]
That sounds mortal to me.

Now, what is drunkenness? Well, it is drinking enough alcohol to damage your memory, intellect, or will. Now, from what I understand, intent is a factor in the mortality of a sin. Drinking something and accidentally letting it catch up on you is venial, though it is still a sin of gluttony. Drinking with the knowledge and intent to annihilate your mind is a mortal sin of gluttony. Drinking and "accidentally" getting drunk might be enough to rationalize to yourself, but God is nobody's fool.

Remember, all evil is an excess or a perversion of that which is good.

Generally, I find it useful to determine whether or not I'm enjoying the drink, the smell, taste, feel, etc. If I am just drinking more and forgetting to appreciate what it is that I'm drinking, it's time to close out my tab, fast.

P.S. One quick note, if drinking a given amount causes you to commit any other sin, you're drunk. Please note for some, that's the first drink.

Edited March 24, 2008 by Dismas

[Guest]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1483255' date='Mar 24 2008, 07:05 PM']That sounds mortal to me.

Now, what is drunkenness? Well, it is drinking enough alcohol to damage your memory, intellect, or will. Now, from what I understand, intent is a factor in the mortality of a sin. Drinking something and accidentally letting it catch up on you is venial, though it is still a sin of gluttony. Drinking with the knowledge and intent to annihilate your mind is a mortal sin of gluttony. Drinking and "accidentally" getting drunk might be enough to rationalize to yourself, but God is nobody's fool.

Remember, all evil is an excess or a perversion of that which is good.

Generally, I find it useful to determine whether or not I'm enjoying the drink, the smell, taste, feel, etc. If I am just drinking more and forgetting to appreciate what it is that I'm drinking, it's time to close out my tab, fast.

P.S. One quick note, if drinking a given amount causes you to commit any other sin, you're drunk. Please note for some, that's the first drink.[/quote]


for some that is the first drink, that made me chuckle, its the truth though....sadly enough i think somedays im that guy....probally a good reason to give up on the drinking....

[CrossCuT]

[size=1]Drinking is not a mortal sin just as alcohol alone is not sinful.

Misusing alcohol and getting drunk, however, IS a mortal sin.


The reason is because when you get drunk, you are no longer in complete control of yourself or completely aware of yourself, others, or the things around you and may end up hurting someone.
It is possible that you could end up killing someone and THAT is defiantly a mortal sin. Granted not everyone does kill people when they are drunk, but that possibility is ALWAYS there and you can NOT promise me that youll be able to control yourself when youre drunk.

But then you could say "But I didnt KNOW what I was doing"
Well, guess what, you CHOSE to lose your ability to make decisions and think clearly...you made that conscious choice and something bad happened. Its your fault.


So by choosing to get drunk, you are basically saying you dont know what is going to happen, but you are willing to risk it. Thats not ok.
Not only that, but you are abusing your body (which is a temple of the Holy Spirit fyi) by putting that much garbage into your system.



However there are also 3 requirements that must be met to constitute a sin as mortal:

1) the sin must be a grave matter.
2) it must be committed with full knowledge.
3) it must be committed willingly, with full consent.

So if one of these is not fulfilled, you have not committed a mortal sin.




"Drunkenness is a flattering devil, a sweet poison, a pleasant sin, which whosoever hath hath not himself; which whosoever doth commit doth not commit sin, but he himself is wholly sin."
- Saint Augustine of Hippo
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Edited March 24, 2008 by CrossCuT

[Aloysius]

Aquinas says to drink to hilarity, not to drunkenness.

a couple rules of thumb I have (by no means exhaustive): did I do anything which I ought not to have done as a result of drinking? did I come close to doing something which I ought not to have done as a result of drinking? did I lose control of my faculties of will, mind, or memory to the point where I was a danger to myself or others? did I ensure my safety beforehand by drinking with trusted friends who would help me to hold my morals and make sure I was not in a position to endanger others?

drinking to hilarity can be good... and you can even drink with the express purpose in mind of going to the point of hilarity. that means you and your friends can bond over it and have fun because it breaks down some of the barriers that needn't be there when you're around friends. the problem comes if you get to the point where it starts breaking down the barriers that SHOULD be there

[Guest]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1483295' date='Mar 24 2008, 07:59 PM']Aquinas says to drink to hilarity, not to drunkenness.

a couple rules of thumb I have (by no means exhaustive): did I do anything which I ought not to have done as a result of drinking? did I come close to doing something which I ought not to have done as a result of drinking? did I lose control of my faculties of will, mind, or memory to the point where I was a danger to myself or others? did I ensure my safety beforehand by drinking with trusted friends who would help me to hold my morals and make sure I was not in a position to endanger others?[/quote]

aloysius, if you answered yes to some of those questions you posted, do you think it would be a good idea to give up drinking all together ? appreciate you're advice.

[CrossCuT]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1483295' date='Mar 24 2008, 07:59 PM']Aquinas says to drink to hilarity, not to drunkenness.

a couple rules of thumb I have (by no means exhaustive): did I do anything which I ought not to have done as a result of drinking? did I come close to doing something which I ought not to have done as a result of drinking? did I lose control of my faculties of will, mind, or memory to the point where I was a danger to myself or others? did I ensure my safety beforehand by drinking with trusted friends who would help me to hold my morals and make sure I was not in a position to endanger others?

drinking to hilarity can be good... and you can even drink with the express purpose in mind of going to the point of hilarity. that means you and your friends can bond over it and have fun because it breaks down some of the barriers that needn't be there when you're around friends. the problem comes if you get to the point where it starts breaking down the barriers that SHOULD be there [/quote]
[size=1]What does drinking to hilarity mean?
Isnt that subjective?
My definition of hilarity in accordance to alcohol may be different than yours.
Someone may think hilarity IS drunkenness.

And I dont believe you should leave your friends responsible for you actions.
You should hold yourself responsible for what YOU do.

I dont think letting your friends clean up whatever mess you make (or prevent you from making) is a very good way of showing friendship.
Using them so you can get wasted?


Getting drunk is a mortal sin.
Having your friends around doesnt undo that.
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Edited March 25, 2008 by CrossCuT

[Aloysius]

it depends. St. Augustine said sometimes total abstinence is easier than perfect temperance, so for some people it is better that they don't drink at all if they feel they cannot keep it in check.

it would depend on the individual what advice I'd give... I personally tend to err (probably unwisely and against the advice of Augustine) on the side of telling people they should cut back and learn how to control their drinking. Often it depends on who you're drinking with what point you'll go to, so maybe avoid drinking in situations where it might become a bit of a contest who's drinking more or situations where it seems the whole point is to just get smashed. I mean if you're an alcoholic and it's interfering with your life, by all means go teetotaler (for yourself, leave those of us who can handle it out of it, haha) through a program like AA or something... but just because you've been known to get drunk sometimes isn't a reason that you necessarily must give up all forms of alcohol... perhaps give up hard liquor and find a drink that it's easy to pace yourself with (Guiness over here in Ireland is quite good at that, being as thick as it is)... but it all depends.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='CrossCuT' post='1483301' date='Mar 24 2008, 08:05 PM'][size=1]What does drinking to hilarity mean?
Isnt that subjective?
My definition of hilarity in accordance to alcohol may be different than yours.
Someone may think hilarity IS drunkenness.

And I dont believe you should leave your friends responsible for you actions.
You should hold yourself responsible for what YOU do.

I dont think letting your friends clean up whatever mess you make (or prevent you from making) is a very good way of showing friendship.
Using them so you can get wasted?
Getting drunk is a mortal sin.
Having your friends around doesnt undo that.
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I didn't say it did. PART of it is drinking around trusted friends though, because on some level there is always the chance that you'll go too far, but on another level there are indeed barriers which it is okay to take down around your friends but it is not okay to take down among strangers... it is indeed subjective, and there are indeed some situations when you can enjoy more of an effect from alcohol than others; there are never any situations when you can go to the point of losing control of yourself though.

who said using them so you can get wasted?

hilarity means allowing alcohol to take down some barriers that don't have to morally be there, thus opening yourself up for more social interaction that you might not do otherwise. drunkenness means taking down barriers that must be there, such as the barrier which keeps you from doing immoral things, or the barrier that keeps you in control of your actions and your willpower.

and of course you, not your friends, are responsible for what you do.

[CrossCuT]

[size=1]Is that a reply to me Aloysius?
Cause if it is, I think youve misunderstood what I mean...and if not, nevermind.

oh i see your post now
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Edited March 25, 2008 by CrossCuT

[Aloysius]

first post was a reply to delivery boy, second post was a reply to you.

[CrossCuT]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1483305' date='Mar 24 2008, 08:12 PM']I didn't say it did. PART of it is drinking around trusted friends though, because on some level there is always the chance that you'll go too far, but on another level there are indeed barriers which it is okay to take down around your friends but it is not okay to take down among strangers... it is indeed subjective, and there are indeed some situations when you can enjoy more of an effect from alcohol than others; there are never any situations when you can go to the point of losing control of yourself though.

who said using them so you can get wasted?

hilarity means allowing alcohol to take down some barriers that don't have to morally be there, thus opening yourself up for more social interaction that you might not do otherwise. drunkenness means taking down barriers that must be there, such as the barrier which keeps you from doing immoral things, or the barrier that keeps you in control of your actions and your willpower.

and of course you, not your friends, are responsible for what you do.[/quote]

[size=1]I dont have anything against drinking alcohol.


But I see what you meant in your other post.
I got so fired up about the whole thing (issues with drunkenness hit a sore spot in me) that I assumed you mean being DRUNK not just getting buzzed or going to the point of "hilarity"

So I flipped.
I thought you mean "GETTING DRUNK IS BAD! BUT IF YOU HAVE YOURE FIRENDS AROUND TO STOP YOU FROM DOING STUPID STUFF, ITS NOT SO BAD!"

But I see where I misunderstood.
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Edited March 25, 2008 by CrossCuT

[Guest]

thanks for you're advice man, i love you're post. that's the problem im haveing with drinking. i mean, i have a job and i only drink once or twice a week. but when i do drink it seems more often or not i end up saying stuff i shouldnt say and end up doing things i shouldnt do. i dont want to blame this on the the drinks because thats just lame. i dunno, i love to go up to the college town nearby get a hotel and take the cab and go drink down at the bars. i feel there is nohten wrong with this one or two nights a week. but then i end up doing something stupid and the next day im at the extreme of not wanting to drinking at all. i dont even know if this is rational or not though.
changing topics kinda but as far as mortal sin goes. if we commit the same mortal sin more then once in short periods of time does it make it alot worse ? or as long as we go to confession were fine if we repent honestly and try to avoid the sin again ? or is God more likely to let something bad happen to us because were commiting the same mortal sin over again ?

Edited March 25, 2008 by Guest