Adoption-is It An Impediment To A Religious Vocation?

[VeniteAdoremus]

I agree with HeavenlyCalling, in the few years that I've been more or less "around" I never saw a single thread this heated, and now there suddenly are several. Let's all take a breath.

I wouldn't think of defending Sr. Mary Catherine (beyond that I think every religious deserves at least a serious attempt at respect) if I agreed with the above posters. I don't. She's a nun, even better, a novice mistress. She has experience with TWO communities, and has done the entire discernment thing [i]twice[/i]. As far as her experience goes, she's at least as qualified as any of us, and quite a bit more than most of us. So yes, I think people in that situation would tend towards a "definite" formulation when it comes to answering questions they, in good faith, think they know the answers to. If they aren't always right, welcome to humanity. Someone can know about 80 monasteries which don't uphold a certain practice anymore and miss out on the three that do!

To get somewhat back on topic: I understand why being illegitimate could be considered an issue. Yesterday when I thought about it I was kind of insulted by the idea and couldn't consider it clearly... Maybe now I can

All entrance requirements are based upon the idea that a person needs some basic faculties to thrive in the convent, not on keeping out a certain group of people. The idea behind an age limit, for example, would often be that an older person can be so rooted in a certain lifestyle that switching to the convent-style would be too difficult. (I'm not saying that it [i]always is[/i], just that some people consider it to be that way.) In MY EXPERIENCE, every "normal" convent has explicitly or upon closer contact stated that "exceptions can be made". I know this isn't everyone's experience. Not every convent in the entire world is the same...

In the case of illegitimacy: I don't think convents require one's parents marriage certificates as an iron prerequisite for entrance. This would not only exclude "us bastards", but also converts, even early ones. I do understand that at least the abbess/prioress and novice mistress really need to KNOW about your home situation when growing up. Again, I'm not saying that there's something wrong with all illegitimate children... just with enough of them to warrant some safety measures.

For example, I didn't grow up underprivileged by a long run, but during my entire youth I haven't had an example of even a pinch of selfless love between adults. I've had to pretty much make that up as I went along when dating for the first time (and the second, and the third). This is an issue for some, not none, legitimate children, and many, though not all, illegitimate kids. Because of that "many", the convent needs to know.

[EWIE]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1484949' date='Mar 26 2008, 04:50 PM']Yes, it does.[/quote]

Good. Then lets not pretend to be "really really confused about all of this. There is no need to be coquetish.

[jkaands]

I think that inquirers such as Laudem, who come across cases of orders asking for the Marriage Cert, to remind the order that the requirement was ended in 1983, citing the canonical rule (if possible). It might be nice for that order to enter the XX century, now that we're in the XXIst Century!

I really must defend Sr. Mary Catherine for her patient reading of all the threads on VS in addition to her many duties. She responded frankly about Summit's preference for younger vocations and they have received enough to justify that preference. I hazard to guess that if there were enough young 'uns to go 'round, other orders wouldn't be accepting so many old 'uns, the worse for them. Sorry, but there it is. Health issues become very important as one ages, particularly over 50. Sr. MC has really brought her house a full novitiate, and I believe that she is also both vocation director and novice mistress.

That said, I think that many of the older candidates have a lot to offer.

I think that it is very important or all orders to find out if a serious candidate is adopted ( which connotes illegitimacy), and a good deal about family life, for everyone, legitimate and illegitimate alike.

I think that TradMom's excellent posts (as always!) reveal a common problem in an intimate setting such as a Carmelite cloister, also in marriage: co-enabling abusive members. In the interests of peace at any price, no one corrects the abusive member until there's a blowup, which is better than nothing at all. Her sister broke the logjam and enabled the monastery and the sister to go forward.

I think that Catherine of Siena, who had influence over the pope (brought him back from Avignon) was also illiterate!! Isn't that interesting?

[HeavenlyCalling]

I agree with jkaands in that it [u]is[/u] very important for a convent (esp a cloistered one ) to ask very detailed and even personal questions about the people who are seeking to become part of their family. The time for finding out any, for lack of a better term, 'shadowed secretes' is NOT when they become a problem inside the convent, better for everyone to know what they are dealing with beforehand. That being said, I dont really know how the question of adoption would come in, although having your new family know it could not possibly hurt.


[quote name='EWIE' post='1484997' date='Mar 26 2008, 06:43 PM']Good. Then lets not pretend to be "really really confused about all of this. There is no need to be coquetish.[/quote]


I think you mistake my intentions. I really [u]was[/u] confused. After you were so kind as to explain to me what you meant, I understood. I do not see how asking for clarification is 'coquettish'

Edited March 26, 2008 by HeavenlyCalling

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Sister Mary Catherine doesn't attempt to 'muzzle' anyone. She is invaluable to us, as she helps to get rid of numerous myths and fanciful illusions about what the religious life is really like. I know that novice mistresses and vocation directors don't have that much spare time to spend on the Internet, so I'm grateful for what Sister M. Catherine can give us. I also realise that the demands on her time mean that she has to be as brief as possible. She's thorough, but she doesn't mince her words.

If that offends people, it is only because they don't like to have their cherished mental images of the religious life dismantled - not even by a senior nun with years of experience. It seems that numerous lay members of Vocation Station do not like to be reminded of how little we know of religious life and its customs. Sister M. Catherine is here to show us what religious life really is. She can't stand there and present it to us as we would like it to be. She'd be doing us a disservice if she did that.

Sister Mary Catherine, I am grateful for your presence on this forum. I will pray a decade of the rosary for Summit tonight.

[linnie]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1485184' date='Mar 26 2008, 07:36 PM']Sister Mary Catherine doesn't attempt to 'muzzle' anyone. She is invaluable to us, as she helps to get rid of numerous myths and fanciful illusions about what the religious life is really like. I know that novice mistresses and vocation directors don't have that much spare time to spend on the Internet, so I'm grateful for what Sister M. Catherine can give us. I also realise that the demands on her time mean that she has to be as brief as possible. She's thorough, but she doesn't mince her words.

If that offends people, it is only because they don't like to have their cherished mental images of the religious life dismantled - not even by a senior nun with years of experience. It seems that numerous lay members of Vocation Station do not like to be reminded of how little we know of religious life and its customs. Sister M. Catherine is here to show us what religious life really is. She can't stand there and present it to us as we would like it to be. She'd be doing us a disservice if she did that.

Sister Mary Catherine, I am grateful for your presence on this forum. I will pray a decade of the rosary for Summit tonight. [/quote]

I agree

I'm really taken aback by the lack of respect and common courtesy that is being shown. And I must apologize that for my "get a grip" statement. It was wrong and I'm sorry.

All of the sisters who participate in this forum have attempted to answer questions and concerns from those who are discerning. They have given the best that they could and now one, in particular, is basically being called dishonest. If you don't like her information or opinions, that's fine. But people in this forum have asked for her input. Don't treat her with disrepect if you don't happen to like what she says.

[cmotherofpirl]

OK I am closing this thread as well because people seem for some reason to be incapable of being CIVIL to each other.

I expect this kind of behavior on the election threads and the debate board, but you people are supposedly discerning religious life.

This board is for people who want to spend the reast of their lives showing love for God and neighbor, so start NOW!

And we will keep closing threads til you get the point.