Adoption-is It An Impediment To A Religious Vocation?

[VeniteAdoremus]

Good heavens, I'd never have thought that being illegitimate would be a problem! (Actually, on the rosy cloud where I live all vocational problems have been solved since St. Martin de Porres was accepted.)

I really, really, hope no communities consider it an impediment anymore, since technically I am illegitimate (and my older brother, too).

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='gloriagurl' post='1483081' date='Mar 24 2008, 02:47 PM']To simply explain it so as to defend communities and make no statement as to at least the SADNESS of such a practice, in my opinion is to defend the practice as well - at least in some sense.

(edited for typo)[/quote]

PLEASE, it would be helpful if you read the WHOLE of a person's entry. I stated that I was adopted as a baby so obviously, I wouldn't be defending a mindset of the past.

Explaining something is NOT defending it and making no statement one way or another is not defending a practice, either. To suggest this is faulty reasoning and is no help to the conversation.

However, if you enter religious life you will find that often you will come up against practices and policies of the past that may seem downright wrong to you. It's the same thing outside of religious life. In order to understand where they were coming from back then you need to TRY to look at the issue from then and not from now or else you will dismiss everyone in your community older than you as nuts or narrowminded, etc. and any fruitful conversation on the level of Chapter would be almost impossible. On the spiritual level, it will divide the unity of your community.

Religious communities live in TIME, they are made up of ordinary human beings who are sinners just like the rest of Christians but God has called them to this particular way of life to strive for holiness. In the ancient world, this was understood clearly and monastics were not looked at as beyond or above the human condition. It's really important to get this or else you will be constantly scandalized by the behavior of individuals or communities.

Once and for all, this is simply NOT an issue anymore in religious life so frankly this whole discussion is mote.

I don't mean to be so firm but I'm a bit taken aback by the quickness to judge religious communities or individuals negatively. The tone on this forum is changing and not for good.

[A Yearning Heart]

Wow, what a flurry of heated responses. And so many issues. I didn't realise it would provoke that much interest.

I was asking as this was an issue for one of my neighbours relatives decades ago and was curious about it as I'm adopted as well. He was accepted and did take his vows.

Being adopted has never been an issue for me and is something I've always known and accept-I consider myself quite blessed that I have three Mothers (Mary, biological and adoptive). However, other's I know of have been hurt by feeling so different from everyone else-even if they weren't treated differently. The same probably goes for anything else that makes someone feel different from the other kids at school. This is not to trivialise these issues nor to sweep them under carpet as I'm sure plenty of people have been actually hurt by other peoples reactions to being adopted or illigitimate or anything else.

I'm glad that these issues are only considered as a part of the whole person when being considered for a vocation and not as a single reason to disregard one. I don't defend that it ever was justifiable to dismiss or belittle someone because of these issues but I do respect and understand religious congregations for wanting to have a complete, honest and upfront history of a potential candidate because these are a part of what makes up a person.

Prays for all.

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1483594' date='Mar 25 2008, 08:13 AM']PLEASE, it would be helpful if you read the WHOLE of a person's entry. I stated that I was adopted as a baby so obviously, I wouldn't be defending a mindset of the past.

Explaining something is NOT defending it and making no statement one way or another is not defending a practice, either. To suggest this is faulty reasoning and is no help to the conversation.
mean to be so firm but I
However, if you enter religious life you will find that often you will come up against practices and policies of the past that may seem downright wrong to you. It's the same thing outside of religious life. In order to understand where they were coming from back then you need to TRY to look at the issue from then and not from now or else you will dismiss everyone in your community older than you as nuts or narrowminded, etc. and any fruitful conversation on the level of Chapter would be almost impossible. On the spiritual level, it will divide the unity of your community.

Religious communities live in TIME, they are made up of ordinary human beings who are sinners just like the rest of Christians but God has called them to this particular way of life to strive for holiness. In the ancient world, this was understood clearly and monastics were not looked at as beyond or above the human condition. It's really important to get this or else you will be constantly scandalized by the behavior of individuals or communities.

Once and for all, this is simply NOT an issue anymore in religious life so frankly this whole discussion is mote.

I don't mean to be so firm but I'm a bit taken aback by the quickness to judge religious communities or individuals negatively. The tone on this forum is changing and not for good.[/quote]
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===========

I am making this a public reply because I am really, really tired of the condescending/teaching approach since it offers only one opinion and then we're told - THAT'S IT...NO MORE...ONCE AND FOR ALL...IT'S MOOT. I wasn't under the impression that I had a responsibility to obedience here. I read the same kind of thing in other threads especially those regarding age limits in communities.....because one person is "tired" of the discussion it should stop? PLEASE.

Here is my response to the above reply to my post:

Yes, it would certainly be helpful if you read the whole post/thread also. My very first reply to this clearly stated that if YOU (Sister Mary Catherine) meant only to offer explanation then what I was about to say was not for YOU but rather to anyone who WOULD defend the position. In my later post - the one you are responding to above - I felt it necessary however, to re-state my objection to the position that simply because something "mirrors society" it is OK for the Church to practice it. I was encouraged to re-state my position by recent post of a MODERATOR who, though he/she found it necessary to close a thread for reasons of charity still said we should have our opinions and stand our ground. I'm standing my ground on this one.

>>I stated that I was adopted as a baby so obviously, I wouldn't be defending a mindset of the past.<<

It's only obvious if one is willing to ASSUME - and assume a lot.

>>Explaining something is NOT defending it and making no statement one way or another is not defending a practice, either. To suggest this is faulty reasoning and is no help to the conversation.<<

That's your opinion. I wholeheartedly disagree. Silence is very loud and certainly at least SOME of the time NOT saying something speaks VOLUMES. As far as your determination that my reasoning is faulty....all I can say WOW. As far as being helpful in the conversation, I wasn't looking to help anyone. I was expressing an opinion and I believe I clearly stated it was MY opinion.


>>>However, if you enter religious life you<<<

I don't know if this was meant specifically for me personally or not, but since this is in reply to a post of mine..I'll guess it's for me. "IF"???? How utterly condescending given that, in a forum that provides for privacy which I have chosen to take advantage of, you have no idea who I am.

>>Religious communities live in TIME, they are made up of ordinary human beings who are sinners just like the rest of Christians but God has called them to this particular way of life to strive for holiness. In the ancient world, this was understood clearly and monastics were not looked at as beyond or above the human condition.<<

This is the same excuse used to hide predators and criminals of every type in every walk of life. It's the coward's way out. Instead of admitting wrong doing, one says they are "sorry" but continues to excuse the behavior based on the "time" in history. We did not see our beloved John Paul II make that same excuse when he issued his letter of apology for a various past faults/sins of the Church. And if you had read MY entire post, you would have seen that I said that PERFECTION should not be expected and would not be possible.

>>It's really important to get this or else you will be constantly scandalized by the behavior of individuals or communities<<

I get it and I AM, SOMETIMES scandalized by the behavior of religous.
I think more of us ought to be.

>>Once and for all, this is simply NOT an issue anymore in religious life so frankly this whole discussion is mote.<<

WOW. I guess we should all be quiet now. I guess everyone is entitled to your opinion. Quite frankly, I'm not so sure how you can know that this is SIMPLY not an issue ANYMORE, ANYWHERE. I think you might be VERY surprised at some of the things that SOME religious communities continue to ask for these days. I have been quite shocked by some of the things some discerners have been asked at variouis communities. I'm sure you did not discern with every community before entering religious life yourself. I'm sure you are not in touch with every community's practices, traditions and customs. How can you make a statement like that and then issue a decree that something is MOOT. I really don't understand why this is tolerated.

>>The tone on this forum is changing and not for good.<<

You're entitled to your opinion. In my reading of past threads, I have to say I don't really think it's changed that much at all...I've seen this kind of condescending post a lot on this phorum. The language - like use of the word "obviously" is very subtle but can also be very controlling and accusatory. I've wound up responding to the attitude instead of the subject, I suppose...but I find that kind of thing intolerable.

I've had it. Some of what I have found on this phorum has completely tried my patience and I have
lost my peace. Perhaps it's my own fault...there are certain subjects about which I am still very passionate and admittedly I have not practiced enough detachment - I am not perfect. Please forgive me. I will end my posting with this reply.

Perhaps I came onto the list at a difficult time...many controversial subjects....it's not the controversy that has rattled me so much, it's the kind of condescending, holier than thou attitude that I just can not abide. I can not believe that I have not seen anyone confront this behavior previously. Perhaps the list has confronted it and I've missed it. Perhaps the members of this phorum don't mind it, but I have a really hard time believing I'm the only person disturbed by this.....then again, maybe I am and maybe this is God's way of telling me that I don't belong here and that my being here is a distraction from the focus of my life, and perhaps even worse, inappropriate for me.

I apologize for whatever faults I may have missed in myself that may have hurt someone else or distrubed their peace. I do not apologize for speaking my mind, offering my opinion, standing my ground, or refusing to be silenced because someone thought I ought to be. I do want to say that my passion is born of experience both in and out of religious life and that my passion, so it is understood, is really just about telling the truth. Let's just say what it is or what it was that we are doing or have done that was hurtful, wrong and/or sinful....let's get it out there, we don't have to hide, we can stand up and ask for forgiveness (that's not always necessary but sometimes is), we can humbly receive it and then just MOVE ON....JUST LIKE IN THE SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION/RECONCILIATION...we tell the truth, receive forgiveness and move on....telling the truth about sins makes them POWERLESS....we won't have to defend our positions because we won't be HOLDING ANY....we'll be FREE (though not perfectly so) which is the legacy of the Children of the Most High, Jesus Christ, Lord, Savior, King. One of the "darkest hours" in the Church was the breaking news of the sex abuse scandal, and what made it so dark was that it was exposed by someone "outside the family", someone who did not have our best interest at heart.....by contrast one of the "brightest hours" in the Church was John Paul II's telling the truth about our past sins and asking for forgiveness. I will never, ever forget that act of supreme, amazing, holiness, humility and authenticity....he changed the world by telling the truth and refusing to hide one moment longer than we already had. We ought to be determined to do the same. You may think me a bit dramatic over just this little "illegitimate" issue......it's not the issue that rouses my passion, it's the principle.

Discerners, especially you youngsters - the Gospel tells us all to be as gentle as doves AND as wise as serpents. My prayers are with you. I will no longer subject you to my opinions.....they are afterall, only that.

Edited March 25, 2008 by gloriagurl

[linnie]

[quote name='gloriagurl' post='1483636' date='Mar 25 2008, 09:00 AM']========================================
===========

I am making this a public reply because I am really, really tired of the condescending/teaching approach since it offers only one opinion and then we're told - THAT'S IT...NO MORE...ONCE AND FOR ALL...IT'S MOOT. I wasn't under the impression that I had a responsibility to obedience here. I read the same kind of thing in other threads especially those regarding age limits in communities.....because one person is "tired" of the discussion it should stop? PLEASE.

Here is my response to the above reply to my post:

Yes, it would certainly be helpful if you read the whole post/thread also. My very first reply to this clearly stated that if YOU (Sister Mary Catherine) meant only to offer explanation then what I was about to say was not for YOU but rather to anyone who WOULD defend the position. In my later post - the one you are responding to above - I felt it necessary however, to re-state my objection to the position that simply because something "mirrors society" it is OK for the Church to practice it. I was encouraged to re-state my position by recent post of a MODERATOR who, though he/she found it necessary to close a thread for reasons of charity still said we should have our opinions and stand our ground. I'm standing my ground on this one.

>>I stated that I was adopted as a baby so obviously, I wouldn't be defending a mindset of the past.<<

It's only obvious if one is willing to ASSUME - and assume a lot.

>>Explaining something is NOT defending it and making no statement one way or another is not defending a practice, either. To suggest this is faulty reasoning and is no help to the conversation.<<

That's your opinion. I wholeheartedly disagree. Silence is very loud and certainly at least SOME of the time NOT saying something speaks VOLUMES. As far as your determination that my reasoning is faulty....all I can say WOW. As far as being helpful in the conversation, I wasn't looking to help anyone. I was expressing an opinion and I believe I clearly stated it was MY opinion.
>>>However, if you enter religious life you<<<

I don't know if this was meant specifically for me personally or not, but since this is in reply to a post of mine..I'll guess it's for me. "IF"???? How utterly condescending given that, in a forum that provides for privacy which I have chosen to take advantage of, you have no idea who I am.

>>Religious communities live in TIME, they are made up of ordinary human beings who are sinners just like the rest of Christians but God has called them to this particular way of life to strive for holiness. In the ancient world, this was understood clearly and monastics were not looked at as beyond or above the human condition.<<

This is the same excuse used to hide predators and criminals of every type in every walk of life. It's the coward's way out. Instead of admitting wrong doing, one says they are "sorry" but continues to excuse the behavior based on the "time" in history. We did not see our beloved John Paul II make that same excuse when he issued his letter of apology for a various past faults/sins of the Church. And if you had read MY entire post, you would have seen that I said that PERFECTION should not be expected and would not be possible.

>>It's really important to get this or else you will be constantly scandalized by the behavior of individuals or communities<<

I get it and I AM, SOMETIMES scandalized by the behavior of religous.
I think more of us ought to be.

>>Once and for all, this is simply NOT an issue anymore in religious life so frankly this whole discussion is mote.<<

WOW. I guess we should all be quiet now. I guess everyone is entitled to your opinion. Quite frankly, I'm not so sure how you can know that this is SIMPLY not an issue ANYMORE, ANYWHERE. I think you might be VERY surprised at some of the things that SOME religious communities continue to ask for these days. I have been quite shocked by some of the things some discerners have been asked at variouis communities. I'm sure you did not discern with every community before entering religious life yourself. I'm sure you are not in touch with every community's practices, traditions and customs. How can you make a statement like that and then issue a decree that something is MOOT. I really don't understand why this is tolerated.

>>The tone on this forum is changing and not for good.<<

You're entitled to your opinion. In my reading of past threads, I have to say I don't really think it's changed that much at all...I've seen this kind of condescending post a lot on this phorum. The language - like use of the word "obviously" is very subtle but can also be very controlling and accusatory. I've wound up responding to the attitude instead of the subject, I suppose...but I find that kind of thing intolerable.

I've had it. Some of what I have found on this phorum has completely tried my patience and I have
lost my peace. Perhaps it's my own fault...there are certain subjects about which I am still very passionate and admittedly I have not practiced enough detachment - I am not perfect. Please forgive me. I will end my posting with this reply.

Perhaps I came onto the list at a difficult time...many controversial subjects....it's not the controversy that has rattled me so much, it's the kind of condescending, holier than thou attitude that I just can not abide. I can not believe that I have not seen anyone confront this behavior previously. Perhaps the list has confronted it and I've missed it. Perhaps the members of this phorum don't mind it, but I have a really hard time believing I'm the only person disturbed by this.....then again, maybe I am and maybe this is God's way of telling me that I don't belong here and that my being here is a distraction from the focus of my life, and perhaps even worse, inappropriate for me.

I apologize for whatever faults I may have missed in myself that may have hurt someone else or distrubed their peace. I do not apologize for speaking my mind, offering my opinion, standing my ground, or refusing to be silenced because someone thought I ought to be. I do want to say that my passion is born of experience both in and out of religious life and that my passion, so it is understood, is really just about telling the truth. Let's just say what it is or what it was that we are doing or have done that was hurtful, wrong and/or sinful....let's get it out there, we don't have to hide, we can stand up and ask for forgiveness (that's not always necessary but sometimes is), we can humbly receive it and then just MOVE ON....JUST LIKE IN THE SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION/RECONCILIATION...we tell the truth, receive forgiveness and move on....telling the truth about sins makes them POWERLESS....we won't have to defend our positions because we won't be HOLDING ANY....we'll be FREE (though not perfectly so) which is the legacy of the Children of the Most High, Jesus Christ, Lord, Savior, King. One of the "darkest hours" in the Church was the breaking news of the sex abuse scandal, and what made it so dark was that it was exposed by someone "outside the family", someone who did not have our best interest at heart.....by contrast one of the "brightest hours" in the Church was John Paul II's telling the truth about our past sins and asking for forgiveness. I will never, ever forget that act of supreme, amazing, holiness, humility and authenticity....he changed the world by telling the truth and refusing to hide one moment longer than we already had. We ought to be determined to do the same. You may think me a bit dramatic over just this little "illegitimate" issue......it's not the issue that rouses my passion, it's the principle.

Discerners, especially you youngsters - the Gospel tells us all to be as gentle as doves AND as wise as serpents. My prayers are with you. I will no longer subject you to my opinions.....they are afterall, only that.[/quote]

my first reaction to this is "get a grip". my second reaction is "you are being very rude to a Sister who has always tried to give good, sound advice to those who post here."

[TradMom]

Praised be Jesus Christ! Alleluia!

My dear Gloriagurl,

What passion you have! May it please God that you use it for the Church, Her children and all members of the Body of Christ!

I read with fascination your post, for you are very articulate, and you supported your thoughts well. I hope you will reconsider and not leave this phorum! Sometimes we all find ourselves feeling frustrated and irritated...it's only natural! The fact that you posted, and supported your feelings/beliefs/thoughts so carefully speaks very highly of you. How much better for you- and for us! - that you took the time to make your voice heard.

As for being rude to a Sister...Sister Mary Catharine is a big girl, trained in the holy spirit of St. Dominic (and St.Catherine!!!), and an experienced Novice Mistress. If anything, you expressed your feelings and thoughts to the right person --- a Dominican of all people! If anybody is up for a "spirited" conversation, it is a Dominican! But as you said...we have no idea who you are, for this phorum does provide the luxury of privacy, should one desire it. It is clear that you are in religious life yourself, from this post and previous ones. Personally, I didn't find your post rude -- you just expressed yourself!

From this, and other posts, opinions, thoughts, feelings, experiences...we learn!

It was St. Catherine of Siena herself who said..."Speak the truth in a million voices. It is silence that kills the world!"

God bless you, and please think about staying on this website!

In His Name and Resurrection,
TradMom

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='TradMom' post='1483763' date='Mar 25 2008, 02:57 PM']Praised be Jesus Christ! Alleluia!

It was St. Catherine of Siena herself who said..."Speak the truth in a million voices. It is silence that kills the world!"

God bless you, and please think about staying on this website!

In His Name and Resurrection,
TradMom[/quote]

AMEN AMEN AMEN, to you dear TRADMOM and another "trinity" of Amen's to the amazing ST CATHERINE OF SIENA, Doctor of the Church, Third Order Dominican, lay woman.

Maybe I will stay....pray about for/with me, will you Tradmom?

[TradMom]

Praised be Jesus Christ! Alleluia!

I WILL pray for you! That's the spirit I like to SEE!!!!

I haven't shared this yet with the phorum, but my dear sister was a Carmelite! She entered later in life (in England) and at that time, felt called to a very traditional (austere!) expression of Carmelite life. When she entered, she was greeted by a character in the Monastery who was...at the most charitable....a VERY strong personality! I honestly thought my sister was going to leave over this nun. Her phone calls, which were not monitored, were filled with tears and frustrations! The community had just lived with this character, for however many years, in SILENCE...and finally, my sister, RIP, just had enough one day! She did not express herself with the same charity that the older nuns used, but she expressed herself with all human emotion! Afterwards, she ran to her cell and waited for the Mother Prioress to come and tell her to start packing!

Oh, the Mother Prioress did come. She came into the cell, laughing! She hugged my sister and told her that she said the very things she had been dying to say for years but hadn't the courage to say! There was my sister, with a tear stained face, scared to death, wrapped in the warmth and love of the Mother Prioress. That little episode was a turning point for the Carmel. They sent the "troublesome" nun out for counseling, and she returned a refreshed and much happier Sister.

It was THAT NUN....the one my own sister almost had a breakdown over...that brought up the quote from Saint Catherine of Siena. When she returned to the Monastery, the day of her return, she put holy cards at each nun's seat in the Refectory. Her holy card was of St. Catherine, and the nun had written this quote on the back.

When my sister died of cancer (before solemn vows!) the nun who had given her the holy card with the quote gave it to me (along with her other personal items). She felt it necessary to share the impact my sister had on her life and religious vocation by her "temper tantrum," and while I had known of it through my sister, I didn't know of the holy card, nor had I heard of it from her viewpoint. I treasure the card, and I pray to my sister (whom I am sure is in heaven) whenever I find myself afraid to break the silence. I will add you to my list, and I will certainly pray to St. Catherine for you.

Thank you for mentioning that she was a lay-woman. I forget that often because she is depicted in the habit, but you are right. A very holy lay woman clothed in the Dominican spirit, who still today urges us to speak the truth...and shatter the silence!

God bless you, my dear!

Tradmom

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='TradMom' post='1483851' date='Mar 25 2008, 04:40 PM']Praised be Jesus Christ! Alleluia!

I WILL pray for you! That's the spirit I like to SEE!!!!

God bless you, my dear!

Tradmom[/quote]

What a wonderful story, what a wonderful Prioress...God bless both your sister and her Prioress for their commitment to the truth. It does set us free. It is often unbelievably difficult to tell the truth....to be responsible for the vocation/life/soul of someone who has sincerely and in good faith given her whole self to Christ, but who at the same time one just KNOWS, has gotten "off track" and become abusive or even just very "difficult" and is wrecking havoc wherever he/she goes. It takes MIGHTY gifts of discernment, patience and and maturity to make the decision to "speak" and "act" on behalf of an entire group of people. WHEW! It's one of the most difficult tasks any religious superior has to perform, but perform it she/he MUST......Praise Jesus, He has given us many who are up to the task!!!

Ahhh but we are both now far afield from the topic of this adoption/illegitimacy thread.....perhaps one of us will start a new thread, one of these days....I'd be pleased to see that. Thanks for your support, TradMom. God bless you.

I commend you to the care of the The Great Mother of God, the intercession of St. Joseph and the protection of St. Michael the Archangel.

Pax

[Laudem Gloriae]

This may start something but like Gloriagirl and others who left this thread or have been receivers of attacks, I can't keep MY OPINION AND OBSERVATION TO MYSELF while a good poster is "bashed":

First, I totally agree with "Gloriagirl" and that last poster that wrote, [b]"you are being very rude to a Sister who has always tried to give good, sound advice to those who post here."[/b] needs to get a grip! This poster obviously has not read all the posts of this "Sister" and isn't privy off the forum or letters to people. This "Sister" has NOT always tried to give good, sound advice to those who post here.

Gloriagirl mentioned when this "sister" wrote that the age issue was over and done with, etc. - which this "sister" did write that to me in a thread - and her advice is often "listen to me, agree with my opinion, now it's over with". Just because she is a religious doesn't make her perfect or the end all of every topic.

I had been discerning with a wonderful Carmel in Australia and the Mother Prioress asked for the typical documents as well as MY PARENT'S WEDDING CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY THE CHURCH. I also encountered this a few years ago with 2 other orders/communities here in the US. This "sister" DOESN'T know the practices of every and all orders.

God calls all types, all ages, all backgrounds to be His brides/spouses, monks, brothers and to be His presentative as priests on this earth and, as Gloriagirl, stated, the Church should be the leader and set the example when it comes to behaviors, etc., not society. Though, just as in the world, too many communities in this country who, often not unlike society, hold's it against a discerner and won't consider them because of their age, because they were married or have grown and independent children. In this instance, these orders ARE being like society, holding certain things against them. As I wrote in another thread, a Mother Abbess once told me that she was NOT about to play God and turn women away just because they don't fit the perfect candidate profile. God is calling men and women later in life (and with certain background issues) - whether they missed the call in their youth or it's a first time call. He calls people whether they are legitimate or not, a limp or not, married/divorced/annulled or widowed or not, grown children or not and there is NO religious sister or community in a position to tell God that He is wrong and No.

Now some of this off the original thread's topic but it picks up on various poster's comments - especially the last one.

[HeavenlyCalling]

Wow, I cant believe how crazy this thread has gotten over a fairly simple question of practice!!! Maybe it is just me, but I think that the whole phorum ( not just the VC ) has gotten very heated of late. I know that the cold, hard, metal computer does not always display the feelings of complex, emational and vibrant people very well ( the good Lord knows that I have been in that situation far more than once!!! ) but things seem to be losing a bit of the Christian spirit that is supposed to unite us.

[EWIE]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1484875' date='Mar 26 2008, 02:55 PM']but things seem to be losing a bit of the Christian spirit that is supposed to unite us.[/quote]
I Have been a luker for quite awile and have been wondering just how long the group would allow the "Sister" M Catherine, to rule them with so much authoritarianism. A spirit of the lack of charity always creeps in when one person attempts to spiritually muzzle the others by declaring a subject to be moot or a particular topic to be closed for discussion. Spiritually muzzleing another is a very grave error in that it annihilates a persons spirit.

[HeavenlyCalling]

Ummmmm, I fail to understand why people are placing the quotes around 'sister'. Is there some doubt that she is, in fact, a fully professed Dominican nun? I find that hard to believe because there have been one or two members of the pham who have either been to Summit or entered there, and have spoken with SMC on here ( I am sure the acual threads can be found ) so unless she is a mass hallucenation, she does exsist. I am really, really confused about all of this. maybe it is just me? Edited March 26, 2008 by HeavenlyCalling

[EWIE]

[mod]Personal attacks against a religious sister.

Personal Attacks
[b]A post or comment that has nothing to do with the topic, but is specifically meant to upset or criticize another person or group of people.[/b] This includes, but is not limited to, calling people "heretics" (used in a derogatory manner), "democrooks", etc.

Catholic vs Catholic Debate
A post or comment that results in doctrinal debates that might cause scandal among the faithful. [b]*Effective immediately, any negative criticism of religious or the current Magisterium will result in deletion, and a warning from the moderators. [/b]This includes but is not limited to criticism of the Novus Ordo mass and/or our Holy Father. [/mod]

[HeavenlyCalling]

Yes, it does.

Despite our agreement or disagreement with them, their Order, ect, people who are nuns, priests, sisters, brothers and monks are called by God. I really think we should let Him choose who 'merits' this title.


Editted because it didn't really make sense on further review.lol.

Edited March 26, 2008 by HeavenlyCalling