Lying To Nazis

[havok579257]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='11 May 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1273624408' post='2109072']
If you are saying that one should sin if you are hiding Jews, you are advocating sin. There are no two ways about it. I will not tone down the truth.

I have struggled with Church teachings before. With trusted friends or advisors. Privately. Not in public, where it can and does cause scandal. I will not tone down my defense of Church teaching, as it needs to be louder than the din caused by the "you are an accomplice to murder if you don't lie" crowd.

This is much like the situation where people who are professed Catholics and who advocate torture. Their arguments need to be rapidly and decisively destroyed, before they cause more grave scandal than they already have.

Lastly, calling someone a professed Catholic does not mean that they are not Catholic. It is a call to recognize the teachings of the Church in which they [i]profess[/i] faith, and a challenge to step up to its demands.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


yet your advocating killing the nazi which would in end kill everyone around you causing you to sin. so aren't you doing the same thing you saying not to do?

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 May 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1273610378' post='2108869']
I think (hope) I said it's not necessarily murder. It would have to fall under the just war criteria.


Ok. So where is it lacking?
[/quote]


killing the gestopo agents would in no way fall under the just war criteria in this scenerio.

[Winchester]

[quote name='havok579257' date='12 May 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1273717922' post='2109692']
yet your advocating killing the nazi which would in end kill everyone around you causing you to sin. so aren't you doing the same thing you saying not to do?
[/quote]
Sin is not determined by result.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Winchester' date='12 May 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1273719078' post='2109703']
Sin is not determined by result.
[/quote]


personally signing the death warrents of over a handful of people is sinful. performing an action which is not essential at the time that kills a handful of people is sinful.

its the same idea as the person who would oppose the nazi and go into vatican square when hitler was in the area and blow up hitler, yet at the same time blow up the vatican and all those inside it.

[Winchester]

[quote name='havok579257' date='12 May 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1273721986' post='2109728']
personally signing the death warrents of over a handful of people is sinful. performing an action which is not essential at the time that kills a handful of people is sinful.

its the same idea as the person who would oppose the nazi and go into vatican square when hitler was in the area and blow up hitler, yet at the same time blow up the vatican and all those inside it.
[/quote]
If God is with us, who can stand against?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='12 May 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1273718228' post='2109694']
killing the gestopo agents would in no way fall under the just war criteria in this scenerio.
[/quote]
You are wrong.

Have you ever read it before? After reading your comments over the last few weeks I'm beginning to seriously doubt your knowledge of what's actually on the books.

[Ed Normile]

How about using little white lies to nazis, like saying "Yes that swastika tattoed on your forehead is lovely" .

ed

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 May 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1273723937' post='2109751']
You are wrong.

Have you ever read it before? After reading your comments over the last few weeks I'm beginning to seriously doubt your knowledge of what's actually on the books.
[/quote]


and i seriously doubt you know what my knowledge level is at.

one of the criteria for just war is the possibility of winning said war. sorry but a one man war against the nazi has no chance of winning. this scenerio were are talking about one man's actions appart from joining a resistance type group. this scenerio is about one man killing the nazi's. so unless you honestly think one man could win a war against all the nazi, then i am right. unless you would like to show me where i am wrong?

[Winchester]

Well, a single conflict between a civilian and a small group of soldiers isn't what just war theory is intended to deal with, anyway. One is always permitted to defend innocents. The just war section applies to nations undertaking war, not civilians protecting themselves or other innocents from tyranny.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='13 May 2010 - 01:41 AM' timestamp='1273729319' post='2109799']
How about using little white lies to nazis, like saying "Yes that swastika tattoed on your forehead is lovely" .

ed
[/quote]

I think you would have to use mental reservation. Such as, "Oh, I have seen better, but I understand why you like it."