Need Your Help And Prayers Again!

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='nunsense' date='Apr 23 2008, 04:15 PM' post='1507568']
You are so sweet, but of course you must realize that my being "open" has nothing to do with courage at all. I am just "compulsively self-disclosing", which means, of course, that I spend entirely way too much time focusing on my self!

Nunsense,

When I first read puelapaschalis' recent post to you in this thread (the one where she compliments your openness), my reaction was SHE TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH. I was going to respond with a resounding (can typing resound??) HERE HERE, then I read your response. Please exucse me in advance as I do not want to disagree or discount your own feelings or sense of your own motivations but I do want to tell you that I find your openness in this thread completely and utterly REFRESHING, it's a balm to my own spirit. As the "youguns" say: YOU ROCK!

[EWIE]

Nunsense wrote..." I just wanted to make sure that I didn't give the impression that there was a failing in the community."

Even though, Carmel describes itself as a community of hermits, eremetic "alone time" is the last thing one will find in a Carmelite monastery. Every single miunute is scheduled.
I wonder if those who are seeking a more eremetic life style have looked to the Carthusian nuns? The scheduling there is more like supportive pillars rather than a collective togetherness.

Also when looking to a monastery in another country, one must take into consideration the cultural differences. They affect how a rule is interpreted and enfleshed.

[jkaands]

This post should be called hodgepodge because it is all over the place.

The so-called updated Carmels in the CCA --Carmelite Communities Associated--include several groups whose horaria appear to have addressed this problem. I know that various of y'all don't 'approve' of these groups but they are Carmelites nevertheless who updated after Vat II. What they appear to have done is adopted pick-up breakfasts and lunches so that one can maintain solitude and silence while eating; often have optional early morning prayer before starting formal prayers at 6-7AM, combine one recreation with a talking supper and the other as after lunch quiet time for hobby, talking with sister(s) or a nap; and saying Compline in their cells in private, so that after about 7-8 PM the evening is free in cell. Each community has the Carmelite two hours of silent prayer a day. I think that this sort of schedule would make for much more recollection, silence and solitude and much less regimentation. The Eldridge IA Carmel has many members from other Carmels.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict that one won't persevere in Carmel. Most don't, after all. And I think that advising one to 'give it up' is unwise. Better a community do that, and I think that most communities know better, as they've seen so many leave their community, enter and stay somewhere else. JPII canonized a Poor Clare nun from Palestine who was in and out of a number of monasteries before she finally settled in Palestine, now Israel--I forget her name.

Re SD's, Therese met a visiting SD to their community, who immediately read her heart. She implored Mere Gonzague, her superior, to see him as much as possible during his stay, and the Mere acquiesed, to a point, anyway. Therese, who could give spiritual direction and often did, appeared to benefit greatly from this.

I am frankly surprised at the restrictions you received in your Carmel, as it was obvious that you needed SOMEthing, but won't comment further. I will say that I thought it weird that you didn't have a live-in--I would think that would be [i]de rigeur [/i]in discerning an enclosed life.

[EWIE]

[quote name='jkaands' date='Apr 23 2008, 05:28 PM' post='1507759']
The so-called updated Carmels in the CCA --Carmelite Communities Associated--include several groups whose horaria appear to have addressed this problem. ... What they appear to have done is adopted pick-up breakfasts and lunches so that one can maintain solitude and silence while eating; often have optional early morning prayer before starting formal prayers at 6-7AM, combine one recreation with a talking supper and the other as after lunch quiet time for hobby, talking with sister(s) or a nap; and saying Compline in their cells in private

I am aware of the various changes to which you refer, however they still remain scheduled. They need to be for the sake of order in the community.
But eremetic prayer is nearly paralyzed by a fixed schedule.


BTW.....welcome to the ML.

[Saint Therese]

Have you ever looked into the Carthusians? Or perhaps the Trappists?
I made a short live in and was definitely discouraged from speaking with the prioress; but that was okay because we could speak with the Novice Mistress practically any time if needed. Perhaps this depends mostly on the community.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Saint Therese

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1507514' date='Apr 23 2008, 07:25 PM']praying4carmel - I was told that the "life itself" was the best teacher and I don't dispute this. If I had been stronger or more surrendered to God's will, then I am sure that I would have found all of the solace and direction that I needed within myself. I was also reminded several times that St Therese used Jesus as her SD - but without a lot of "alone time" there, I found it hard to rely only on His guidance. I do admit that the failing was within me, but that is perhaps why this community was not right for me. For someone else, it might have been the making of a saint. I don't want to judge a community for my failings - but would like to stress that proper discernment is most important.[/quote]

Annie, to be fair to yourself, I think that you [i]were[/i] strong and surrendered to God's will - otherwise you could never have gone from America to Singapore, and from Singapore to England, in search of your place in life. That takes a great act of courage. I am in the process of arranging a discernment visit to a community on the Continent, and even though it is cheaper to fly to this place than it is to go on a train to my English hometown I still feel quite nervous. As PP pointed out, crossing the world and immersing herself in a different culture, away from one's support network of friends, is not something a person undertakes lightly.

This isn't to say that the community's reluctance to provide you with a spiritual director or to give you permission to speak with that sister were 'failings' on their part. Just mistakes in judgement. Everybody makes such mistakes from time to time, and that doesn't mean that they've failed in some way. The community did not fail you, and you did not fail them. I hope that in time the false feelings of guilt and failure will pass. To look at the blessings: you have some practical experience of the religious life now, you have added a monastery of nuns to your group of special friends, and you have a much deeper sense of your calling in life that you wouldn't otherwise have had. For the nuns' part, they have received some insight into the particular needs of overseas postulants. That's not failure.

[Guest Janua Coeli]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1507471' date='Apr 23 2008, 06:34 PM']What truly beautiful feelings. It is wonderful that you have found what you need in your community and that your vocation is so clear to you. These are graces for which no price can be paid. I'm probably hyper sensitive these days, but your post seemed a little critical of what I had posted previously, as if my seeking more solitude was a failing of some kind, by not being able to find this in Carmel - but in the interests of the well being of this forum, I am going to reply as if nothing personal was meant, and that you are just sharing your own joy at your life in Carmel - ok? I realize too that I might have sounded as if I were criticizing Wolverhampton because I wanted more solitude, and your post might have been a "defense" of what you see as the Carmelite way of life. I certainly did not intend to disparage WV because I love them there very much, but what I post here is intended to help others in their discernment. The fact is that I [u]did [/u]find the lack of solitude (time physically alone) to be an impediment to my vocation within that community. The Terre Haute Carmel, for example, does their 2 hours of mental prayer alone instead of in community and they have one hermit day per week. This is the type of thing that I needed but did not have - not everyone needs this or indeed even wants it! One sister at WV said she didn't want a hermit day and would gladly give it up to someone else!

Your post is beautiful though and it describes the almost romantic ideal of religious life - so you must be very grateful to God for allowing you to experience such a thing. Keep us all in your prayers please, especially those of us who haven't found our "homes" yet. God bless you.[/quote]

O Mary, we trust Thee!

Dear nunsense,
Truly I did not intend to criticize what you had previously posted on Phatmass. And I was not, in all honesty, saying that your being unable to find enough physical solitude in Carmel was a failing of any sort. (You are [u]not[/u] a failure but very courageous, open and obviously much loved.) Indeed, nothing personal was meant by my comments. I was merely trying to bring up a few other issues that are involved in the hermit aspect of Carmelite life and convey another way of looking at it, so that discerners might get a more complete picture. I also hope that I did not come across as being too defensive. I guess I am just disappointed that you did not find all that you were hoping for from your Carmelite experience. Maybe you will in another community? Certainly Carmels (following the same Rule and Constitutions) will differ in how much time sisters are physically alone, and individuals also differ in the amount of absolute solitude they get on best with. I simply wanted to mention that I think it is possible to live as a hermit in a more interior way, without necessarily being on one’s own as much as one would like. And also that there can sometimes be periods when one is very glad to have others around, e.g. when prayer is very difficult or one is experiencing great interior suffering or fears of various kinds.
I will finish there, nunsense, though there is more I might have said in response to your various posts. I think I should probably leave that to others who are more experienced and knowledgeable on the subject. Know that, at any rate, I will definitely keep you and the other discerners in prayer, and pray that you will find your real “home” in religious life, according to the Will of God. May He bless you and fill you with His Spirit of Love and Truth. Please pray for me, too. As you know, Carmel lived in practice is not as easy or romantic as it might sound when one tries to put it into words.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Janua Coeli' post='1514993' date='Apr 30 2008, 08:43 AM']O Mary, we trust Thee!

Dear nunsense,
Truly I did not intend to criticize what you had previously posted on Phatmass. And I was not, in all honesty, saying that your being unable to find enough physical solitude in Carmel was a failing of any sort. (You are [u]not[/u] a failure but very courageous, open and obviously much loved.) Indeed, nothing personal was meant by my comments. I was merely trying to bring up a few other issues that are involved in the hermit aspect of Carmelite life and convey another way of looking at it, so that discerners might get a more complete picture. I also hope that I did not come across as being too defensive. I guess I am just disappointed that you did not find all that you were hoping for from your Carmelite experience. Maybe you will in another community? Certainly Carmels (following the same Rule and Constitutions) will differ in how much time sisters are physically alone, and individuals also differ in the amount of absolute solitude they get on best with. I simply wanted to mention that I think it is possible to live as a hermit in a more interior way, without necessarily being on one’s own as much as one would like. And also that there can sometimes be periods when one is very glad to have others around, e.g. when prayer is very difficult or one is experiencing great interior suffering or fears of various kinds.
I will finish there, nunsense, though there is more I might have said in response to your various posts. I think I should probably leave that to others who are more experienced and knowledgeable on the subject. Know that, at any rate, I will definitely keep you and the other discerners in prayer, and pray that you will find your real “home” in religious life, according to the Will of God. May He bless you and fill you with His Spirit of Love and Truth. Please pray for me, too. As you know, Carmel lived in practice is not as easy or romantic as it might sound when one tries to put it into words.[/quote]


Janua Coeli - no offence taken. All any of us want is to love God and to love each other, and fortunately there are many ways to do this. Do not be disappointed for me that I did not find what I wanted in Carmel because I am not sad about it. Although I have had sad feelings from time to time, in the end, the will of God is all that matters, and it seems that He has other plans for me (see the topic about the Daughters of Mary, Mother of Israel's Hope and Rosalind Moss). When I look at what God has done in Rosalind's life, I can see that He is able to use everything that we bring to Him, even our so-called "failures". And of course the completely ironic thing is that God has used my love of solitude to bring me to this point in life where it looks as if I will have to be giving up my solitude for an more active apostolate - go figure! So, I can assure you that I am totally enjoying the solitude I have right now and trying to soak up every last minute of it. Sometimes I wonder why I don't just stay where I am and enjoy the hermit-like life I have been given - but as we know, God's calls are not easy to resist. As Jeremiah said:

[i]You have seduced me Yahweh
and I have let myself be seduced;
you have overpowered me:
you were the stronger.[/i]

Although I can agree with you about the value of community prayer, especially as a help for those who need it. There is a time for this of course, but I don't think I will ever be someone who prefers praying in community to praying in private. The intimacy of being with Him alone is something my soul craves - but that doesn't mean I don't see the great beauty in worshipping as a family in the Church, or that I don't enjoy praying the Divine Office in community - I do. And the Mass on feasts and solemnities is always so beautiful, especially when there is music and singing, and I must say that at the Easter Vigil I was blown away by the beauty of the bi-lingual Mexican-American Mass I attended - and there were just so many people there! All these group activities are like spending time with the family - wonderful and fulfilling. They are not, however, the same thing as spending time alone with one's Beloved.

Sometimes I wonder if I am just weird (comparatively speaking) because I don't see prayer the same way as most other people do. I recently read a comment from someone about their community, and she described their prayer as very private because although they do it in the choir, they can come and go as they please, and sit where they want (we used to do this during Exposition and it was very lovely) -- BUT, and this is the difference for me -- as beautiful as this is - it is NOT the solitude I am talking about - it is not my definition of "private" prayer. To me, private prayer is when I am TOTALLY alone with God. Contemplation is not "praying while one works" or even with other people around - although technically this is possible, and I will even concede that this might be the "greater" or "better" way (if one must compare). But for me, contemplation is totally losing oneself in God, and this is so intimate, so private that, for me, it can only be done when totally alone. I don't know about anyone else, but in the presence of God, I cry! The ecstasy and joy of being in His embrace is just too personal a thing to want others around - after all, it is the intimacy of the Soul and her Bridegroom!

That being said, St Catherine of Siena was called to an active apostolate after many years as a hermit in her house, so this gives me hope that although I feel like a hermit by nature, if God is calling me to something more active now, I will be able to do it, by His grace; and that He will find some way to provide for me the time alone that I need with Him.

My time at WV Carmel was beautiful. It was a time of foundation and growth and learning to live in community, and I will always love the sisters there - so the time was not wasted. God doesn't waste anything that is offered to Him in love. So, I will still encourage others to enter Carmel, and I always pray for vocations to WV because of my great love for them.

Thank you so much for your own insights, Janua - I am sure that they have been so valuable for others here. God bless you.

Annie

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1515098' date='Apr 30 2008, 01:43 PM']after all, it is the intimacy of the Soul and her Bridegroom![/quote]

Nunsense, you write so passionately and sensitively about this subject, it seems to me your desire is truly born of love and I hope that Jesus will not leave you completely without this consolation even in the active apostalate. I don't, of course, know His mind or intentions for you, He reveals them to you and I believe to certain others in your life who He chooses, in His wisdom, as "companions" or "guides" for you...but I can't imagine that he would forever keep this from you simply because you follow Him in "active" life.

I'm not saying that anything you have said makes me believe you think that either...just a little thought/encouragement for you that Jesus knows your heart and desires to give you those desires born of love in you.

Imagine how sweet will be the times when you can return to Him in solitude and contemplation, filled with the joy of knowing you have followed Him unselfishly into "action".

May He give you His Peace.

[praying4carmel]

[quote name='nunsense' date='Apr 30 2008, 02:43 PM' post='1515098']



Although I can agree with you about the value of community prayer, especially as a help for those who need it. All these group activities are like spending time with the family - wonderful and fulfilling. They are not, however, the same thing as spending time alone with one's Beloved.

Sometimes I wonder if I am just weird (comparatively speaking) because I don't see prayer the same way as most other people do.

[quote]

Annie, YOU ARE NOT WEIRD! I full understand what you are saying...

You are correct..it is Not The same..to have community prayer and be alone with your Beloved...I do not see prayer in the same way that others do, either, However, in this discernment process..I am learning rapidly how to have harmony in my own personal prayer life. I understand that I will not always be able to be "alone with the Alone" all the time. However, He fills me and works thru me in a new way. I feel stretched..

For me, and this is just my experience, not a judgement on yours in any way, I found that I was becoming somewhat attached to spending time with Him Alone to the point that it was exclusive to any prayer time that I had. As St. Teresa talks about we can become too attached to raptures and feelings etc. experiences..Though I love spending time with the Lord, I wanted Him to fill me so that I could be there in service to Others. This meant re-learning intercessory prayer, centering prayer, etc. I knew when I moved into the desert so to Speak I was getting somewhere..I trust in my Dark Nights because I know He is with me, even when He does not feel anywhere present.

I do not look for outcomes any more in prayer, rather i trust in Him to have listened to my prayer, and to answer in His way. I am still attacked by evil forces sometimes..in other words completely inappropriate thoughts come at inappropriate times, but now I say: "Lord, Holy spirit, & Michael help" and I don't attach to the thought or fight it I just don't go with it.. and it's then gone..so I know someone is listening to me!

I know that we all believe in your Vocation 100% here on Phatmass. However, I would ask you to take a leap of faith, and prepare to be suprised...your answer may not lie in Carmel....He may have something completely different in mind for you....Where your intimacy will grow even deeper....it may or may not be a hermit order..or another type of order...

I only say this because His answer in my Journey is so suprising to me..it's taking into account the whole of my personality...I am continually suprised and awe struck...I have no words.

It's your journey and your story, and I respect and Love that. I have 100% confidence in you and our Lord to lead you to where you are meant to be.
I just wanted to share my suprises so that you did not feel weird or bad. This is all a part of a process..and it takes time..How wonderful that you still have a Vocation! Remember that many would have bailed out by now. You have shown great courage and Love.

Blessings
+
P4C

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='praying4carmel' post='1515159' date='Apr 30 2008, 11:56 AM']Annie, YOU ARE NOT WEIRD! I full understand what you are saying...

You are correct..it is Not The same..to have community prayer and be alone with your Beloved...I do not see prayer in the same way that others do, either, However, in this discernment process..I am learning rapidly how to have harmony in my own personal prayer life. I understand that I will not always be able to be "alone with the Alone" all the time. However, He fills me and works thru me in a new way. I feel stretched..

For me, and this is just my experience, not a judgement on yours in any way, I found that I was becoming somewhat attached to spending time with Him Alone to the point that it was exclusive to any prayer time that I had. As St. Teresa talks about we can become too attached to raptures and feelings etc. experiences..Though I love spending time with the Lord, I wanted Him to fill me so that I could be there in service to Others. This meant re-learning intercessory prayer, centering prayer, etc. I knew when I moved into the desert so to Speak I was getting somewhere..I trust in my Dark Nights because I know He is with me, even when He does not feel anywhere present.

I do not look for outcomes any more in prayer, rather i trust in Him to have listened to my prayer, and to answer in His way. I am still attacked by evil forces sometimes..in other words completely inappropriate thoughts come at inappropriate times, but now I say: "Lord, Holy spirit, & Michael help" and I don't attach to the thought or fight it I just don't go with it.. and it's then gone..so I know someone is listening to me!

I know that we all believe in your Vocation 100% here on Phatmass. However, I would ask you to take a leap of faith, and prepare to be suprised...your answer may not lie in Carmel....He may have something completely different in mind for you....Where your intimacy will grow even deeper....it may or may not be a hermit order..or another type of order...

I only say this because His answer in my Journey is so suprising to me..it's taking into account the whole of my personality...I am continually suprised and awe struck...I have no words.

It's your journey and your story, and I respect and Love that. I have 100% confidence in you and our Lord to lead you to where you are meant to be.
I just wanted to share my suprises so that you did not feel weird or bad. This is all a part of a process..and it takes time..How wonderful that you still have a Vocation! Remember that many would have bailed out by now. You have shown great courage and Love.

Blessings
+
P4C[/quote]


P4C - you are so sweet to want to make me feel better! Thank you for sharing your own experiences of prayer. It sounds very well balanced for you. You are right in that we need a balance of different types of prayer and that is why I found Carmel so hard - because all of the activities are done in common, including mental prayer. If I had been able to spend an hour or two alone during the day, then I think the balance would have been maintained for me, but I found myself trying to find a few minutes here and there during the day when I could return to our cell just to be alone. In fact, the amount of activities we had to do during the day and the way everything was scheduled minute by minute (and many extra chores squeezed in), I actually felt I was living more of an active and pressured life in Carmel than I did in the world! It did not feel balanced at all to me, and even our extraordinary confessor told me that he felt it had an unbalanced work ethic. But I understand that not everyone needs or wants time alone, and that Carmel's routine was probably ok for many others there (although on occasion I did hear some others say they felt it was unbalanced towards work).

My day now consists of caring for an elderly lady 24/7 six days per week (live-in). This includes showering her, changing her, dressing and undressing her, getting her to meals, doctors, hairdressers, grocery shopping etc. It is a very active life in some ways, but the activity is limited to certain times, and the rest of the time I can spend alone in my room to pray the Divine Office, pray for others, go online or read, and contemplate. I attend Mass at 7am every morning and have Sundays off. So, all in all, the life is very quiet and gives me space and time for God - and yet it feels "balanced" in terms of prayer and work. If God weren't calling me to do something for Him, then this life would have much to recommend it.

But now we get on to a topic that is a passion of mine and on which I have very strong opinions! I hope I don't offer offence here to anything you have said but whenever I come across this topic, I need to address it because I feel so strongly about it! The thing that I have heard over and over again, especially in relation to consolations from God is that "It is not about feelings." You didn't use those words, but they have been said to me over and over again by various other people when I talk about God and wanting time to be in His presence alone. The worry seems to be that one will "overindulge" in God in some way. I don't believe this is possible. God gives what God wants to give, and if He gives us consolations, then we would be geniuses not to accept these. Some people are given more, some less, depending on what He knows is best for each soul, but to try to avoid consolations just seems like refusing gifts that one's Beloved is trying to bestow. St Teresa may have told us not to "chase" visions and ecstasies, but she also said that the graces that God bestowed upon her through these consolations were instrumental in increasing virtues in her, and that she could not have achieved the same level of virtue on her own. It is my own personal opinion that people have misunderstood much of what St Teresa and St John of the Cross have said about consolations and that these misunderstandings have made it difficult for those who receive consolations because they think they shouldn't want them! Even in the Third Spiritual Alphabet, which was greatly loved by St Teresa, we are told that it is much better to seek the consolations of God than to seek the consolations of this world. Since no one can make these consolations manifest except God, why would we think that receiving them would be in some way be harmful? I am not trying to encourage actively "seeking" consolations from God (although even this is better than chasing them in the world), but when one is already being graced with such things, then obviously they are sent by God for a reason and should be accepted as the great gift that they are. This means spending as much time as necessary in private prayer to allow God to do His work in the soul. Prayer time should not be limited by us because we fear to receive God's graces but only by our other responsibilities and duties. If we have the time to do so, then God deserves that we should sit in adoration as long as we can. When the cup is full (usually to overflowing), then we will know it is time to stop, but not because we have set some arbitrary time limit to avoid the dangers of getting too attached to His consolations. See, the way I look at it, God IS His consolations (He is the God OF consolations) and therefore we are getting attached to HIM! I think the bigger worry in this day and age is that people don't spend enough time with God alone in prayer. Maybe when we are all such great saints that we are in ecstasy for 12 hours out of the 24, then we should start worrying about spending too much time in prayer. Until then, I think we can feel safe in spending as much time as possible in contemplation, just letting God do His work on our souls! Our own weak human nature will drive us to leave contemplation eventually anyway. As you pointed out, the evil one stirs up all kinds of thoughts, and even our own weaknesses cause us to feel sleepy (remember the apostles falling asleep in the garden instead of praying with Jesus?) or to suddenly think of a million things we need to do instead of praying right now! I don't think that we need to add "too many consolations" or "too attached to consolations" to the list of things that stop us from praying! And when God has filled our soul, then all we want to do is to give something back to Him - it is natural and inevitable. So even our selfishness in wanting to be alone with God will get turned into an act of self-giving when we find ourselves so full that we just have to do something for Him in return. Since we can't actually GIVE anything to Him, we are left with His request that we love one another as He has loved us -- and this means doing something for others. Hence the consolations of God lead to acts of charity! End of my passionate speech!

As for where I am being called by God, the funny thing is that I don't have any worries about that right now. I would be perfectly happy in many ways just to stay in the situation where I am, living a semi-hermit life. But I think the only reason that it all feels ok right now is because I feel He is asking me to do something for Him and I have to wait for that to unfold. Rosalind has emailed me that she will send me the rule and application form next week (she is away again this week) and then we will get together for a chat. I am not even really very excited right now because I feel such a deep down peace in my soul. You can be sure I will be enjoying my solitude as long as it lasts though!

God bless.

[praying4carmel]

Thank you Annie, for your beautiful reply...Much food for thought, well reasoned with heartfelt experience..I was not in the Least offended..You are absolutely correct to say it is not about feelings..in deep contemplative prayer, the consolations of God are so much more than that...and if they are about feelings alone or just ecstasies then I would be concerned..my concern was only to share the fact that I can get too caught up on one side of my life or another either active or contemplative, and that it's been wonderful to find that balance for me. I could sit with the Lord all day, and that's not necessarily wrong..it's that for me I have had to learn to seek a balance. Indpls Carmel had a nice balance for me, Work, silence, cell time, LOH, just a beautiful circle of life. But we all know where that has ended and I am hoping that Cleveland is much the same as they are a very close community to Indpls. in spirit, and friendship. (Did you know that Cleveland shows 2 sisters in habit in their brochure? Granted it was some years ago, however, I thought that was pretty neat. When I go I will ask if the Habit can be worn as a Choice).

My prayers and heart go out to you because I thirst for prayer the way you do and I can understand why you felt that Wolverhampton was a bit busy for you...it's not, once again, a failing of you or that Carmel, it just was not the right fit for for your life.
And that's OK.

I think it's wonderful that you will be talking to Rosalind, and that you feel at peace in your soul. I am in agreement with you that the Lord has something in mind for you, and it will unfold. It's beautiful that you are doing caretaking right now..that is a beautiful labor of Love...

Count on my prayers! Thank you also for your continued correspondence in a public forum..I thnk it helps many who are discerning, to see everyone's opinions and replies.

Blessings and Peace,
+
Nancy

[HolyHearts]

[quote name='praying4carmel' post='1515805' date='May 1 2008, 11:57 AM']Thank you Annie, for your beautiful reply...Much food for thought, well reasoned with heartfelt experience..I was not in the Least offended..You are absolutely correct to say it is not about feelings..in deep contemplative prayer, the consolations of God are so much more than that...and if they are about feelings alone or just ecstasies then I would be concerned..my concern was only to share the fact that I can get too caught up on one side of my life or another either active or contemplative, and that it's been wonderful to find that balance for me. I could sit with the Lord all day, and that's not necessarily wrong..it's that for me I have had to learn to seek a balance. Indpls Carmel had a nice balance for me, Work, silence, cell time, LOH, just a beautiful circle of life. But we all know where that has ended and I am hoping that Cleveland is much the same as they are a very close community to Indpls. in spirit, and friendship. (Did you know that Cleveland shows 2 sisters in habit in their brochure? Granted it was some years ago, however, I thought that was pretty neat. When I go I will ask if the Habit can be worn as a Choice).

My prayers and heart go out to you because I thirst for prayer the way you do and I can understand why you felt that Wolverhampton was a bit busy for you...it's not, once again, a failing of you or that Carmel, it just was not the right fit for for your life.
And that's OK.

I think it's wonderful that you will be talking to Rosalind, and that you feel at peace in your soul. I am in agreement with you that the Lord has something in mind for you, and it will unfold. It's beautiful that you are doing caretaking right now..that is a beautiful labor of Love...

Count on my prayers! Thank you also for your continued correspondence in a public forum..I thnk it helps many who are discerning, to see everyone's opinions and replies.

Blessings and Peace,
+
Nancy[/quote]

Nancy -
You might want to try the Carmel in Savannah, Georgia. They are a bit more up-dated but with more quiet
time, to be sure. Also, they need vocations badly. The name of the Prioress is Sr, Joann of John of the Cross.
They use a modified habit. The grounds are beautiful!

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1515247' date='Apr 30 2008, 09:41 PM']P4C - you are so sweet to want to make me feel better! Thank you for sharing your own experiences of prayer. It sounds very well balanced for you. You are right in that we need a balance of different types of prayer and that is why I found Carmel so hard - because all of the activities are done in common, including mental prayer. If I had been able to spend an hour or two alone during the day, then I think the balance would have been maintained for me, but I found myself trying to find a few minutes here and there during the day when I could return to our cell just to be alone.[/quote]

In Quidenham the sisters spend the two hours of mental prayer alone (although you can stay in your choir stall if you wish). I usually prayed in the choir in the morning and went to my cell for the evening. The nuns are in their cells for forty-five minutes of solitary spiritual reading each day, and they have an hour of free time that they must spend alone, to counterbalance the hour of communal recreation in the evening. This is an especially silent time in the monastery. The older sisters nap. The younger ones pray or read or go for walks in the grounds. I didn't realise that the schedule differed so much from Carmel to Carmel.

[praying4carmel]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1515821' date='May 1 2008, 12:22 PM']I didn't realise that the schedule differed so much from Carmel to Carmel.[/quote]

Seems so CA..I did not realize this either until I started checking things out. I think it's good for people to know.