Basic Minimum

[dairygirl4u2c]

i am one to push for all who work to get a basic minimum.

i've used examples like a giant on earth who tries to claim everything to the exclusion of everyone else to make my example. i think the following example i've used is best.

back in the day, the frontier days... if you wanted a surgery, you would simply give the doctor, at most, a cow, and he'd do it for you.

i've used this example before, somewhat facetiously, so i thought i'd bring it pu again as i got no major response.

do people have access to the cow metaphorically today?

if the average cost for a surgery is 14k and the average open heart is 100k, and we consider these to be pretty basic, then a working person to me should be able to get it. so, there should be catostrophic subsidies for those who need it from the government.

now, we can build into this things like the requirement to save in health tax accounts etc for yourself etc, and that if you make more you're more responsible to save etc. and we don't need insurance for all and paying for everytime ya go to the doctor. but that doesn't really say the thigs that matter.

but, to say no help at all.... when say all those 30 belows out there couldn't afford it primarly... is at least not addressing my metaphor.
(arguably this could apply to manys but it gets more gray)
by the time you're 20, you should be able to afford a cow. i don't think most 20 year olds could practically speaking.

if you disagree with me, but have no substantial methaphors back at me, won't you at least explicitly acknowledge that you don't think it's just to have the government do this, and ulitmately then don't care that that happens at least in the sense that of governmental help?

also... i used this point with that giant on earth but it's applicable here.... if we deny the earth etc to people to take at will and as much as they want with laws of claims and such.... aren't we responsbile for ensuring that at the least everyone has a basic cut to it?

[Deb]

I believe that if any person goes out and works a forty hour work week, they should earn enough money to provide a roof over their head, clothing, food and transportation. Today, that cannot be done with our minimum wage.
The gluttony of the top earners keep sucking up the money at the expense of the laborers and this should be corrected.
Yes, we need a very large hike in the minimum wage and then a nice hike in mine.

[T-Bone _]

I wish I could cite this, but I can't.

I recently read an article that the majority of those living below the "poverty line" still owned DVD players & gaming systems, ate out often, regularly purchased junk-food, and took vacations.

It's all about priorities.

That being said, there are some people, like myself, who are unable to get health insurance. (I'm in a "high-risk" group, and in Oregon, having a full-time minimum-wage job disqualifies you from any sort of state assistance in that regard.)

Edited March 10, 2008 by T-Bone _

[dairygirl4u2c]

you don't need to cite it cause i believe you.

like i said above, there needs to be requirements that you save a certain amount if hte gov is going ot intervene. if that means you're not going to be able to buy a DVD player, that's life.
on the other side though, DVD layers can be found cheaply, and in the big scheme are realatively cheap. so while it was al uxory to them back in the day, i'm not sure it's much to split hairs about now.

but your main point is still taken.

like you said, some people including yourself, people in good faith and reasonable effort many times cannot afford it, doing jobs that they are ordinary, which menas they should be able to afford it.

[Aloysius]

healthcare costs are ridiculous, and they don't need to be. why can't the average person afford their medical care? because the average person's dollar can't buy jack, and medical care costs are way over inflated for what is actually necessary... and doctors are not free to make private deals with patients because of government regulation and insurance company regulation.

step 1 is to cut through the government regulation and make it possible for doctors to make private deals with people to do these medical procedures.

then of course, cut down on the necessity of high costs in health care by cutting back on frivolous lawsuits so that doctors are not paying through the roof for malpractice insurance.

and of course, the issue of how much a dollar can buy is something that needs to be looked at. permit alternative currencies based upon gold to be voluntarily used; and in conjunction with allowing doctors to make their own contracts with patients, you will make health care affordable to the average person. not only that, but if there are alternative currencies competing with the dollar, the fed will be forced to keep the dollar more competitive and stop taking away its spending power.

health care is not naturally more expensive nowadays than it was when you could pay with a cow, we have made it more expensive with the system we have created. a massive change is needed to the system to re-establish an equilibrium wherein people earn stuff that has actual value and necessary medical care only costs what it actually needs to cost.

[dairygirl4u2c]

insurance is a communal thing, that people abuse cause they cause, which all causes costs to sky rocket.
the AMA has stopped putting out med schools, back in the 80s, such that the population increases while doctors in the system stays teh same.... causeing rising prices.
and what al said too.

those are the main problems.
giving help, a basic cut, is good... but not if it causes us to not fix the problems were they are. if we pass basic cut type legialstion, we also need to regualte that other stuff, lest we go way too much into debt even more than we are.

this is an indicator that laissez faire free markets are not necessarily the best thing. free market theory is still good, whilst we acknowlege that rational people and perfect knowledge is not existing here as per hte theory, and the government intervention can help this situation. stiglitz is right again.

[dairygirl4u2c]

doctors can't make deals? where do you get hat info though?

it seems to me the doctors are merely profiteering, tacking the insurance patients who pay mroe, cause they can. they are blood sucking, in hte non literal sense of the word.

[Deb]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1475703' date='Mar 11 2008, 12:39 PM']doctors can't make deals? where do you get hat info though?

it seems to me the doctors are merely profiteering, tacking the insurance patients who pay mroe, cause they can. they are blood sucking, in hte non literal sense of the word.[/quote]

Doctors take many different forms of insurance. If they are in HMO's their are maximum amounts that are paid for services. If they treat people with medicare, they barely get anything. Being a doctor used to be a big money game but now, they get out of med school with $100,000 or more in student loans and get flat fees for most services. They are still making good money but they have really lost control over whom they can treat and how they get paid.

The major blood suckers are the drug companies. My girlfriends daughter had to take a med for bi-polar. Of course it isn't covered under her insurance. It costs her $900 a month. It is the only one that works. So, what is she supposed to do? Cut back more and more to squeeze that out. Sad.