Justification Of Suicide

[blovedwolfofgod]

Okay, so I had a question. I was wondering if suicide was justifiable in a similar case to this: Person is a combatant in a combat zone, but his position is being overrun and death or capture is imminent. Unfortunately, for this soldier capture is significantly more likely. The combatant realizes that he may be a security risk for whatever reason. Perhaps he has knowledge of top secret information, troop movements, things that would give the enemy an advantage. He also wonders about the enemies ability to break him. Perhaps they'll use sodium pentathol, perhaps they have a master torturer that is known for results and breaks even the best trained individuals. In the spirit of protecting information, comrades, and of course probably a little bit of saving himself an extreme amount of anguish, he straps a grenade to himself when the enemy comes in, or puts a bullet through brainbox, whatever seems most appropriate given ammunition and whatnot. All things considered, he is a nice guy, frequents confession, no real serious sins other than killing people in combat, and then himself. Is he doomed to an eternity of hell for his suicide?

[Mr.Cat]

Intentional suicide is seemingly always “grave matter”, meaning that it can be mortal sin. However, the culpability and gravity of the particular offence may be lessened depending on those particular situations. The Catechism of the Catholic Church ([i]Catechism of Pope John Paul the Second[/i]) proposes that “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or [u][b]grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture[/b][/u] [u]can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide[/u].”

So in the hypothetical situation proposed it may be possible to argue that grave fear of hardship, suffering, and torture existed that possibly would reduce the culpability and gravity of the offence in this hypothetical situation. This does not necessarily mean that one has committed mortal sin, it is possible it is merely venial sin.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Mr.CatholicCat

[LouisvilleFan]

It may be possible? If this hypothetic situation doesn't qualify for what the Catechism says can diminish one's responsibility, what in all of Creation does?

I'd like to know of a situation when someone commits suicide without being influenced by "grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture." Those things tend to be what drive people to hurt or kill themselves.

[dairygirl4u2c]

louisvillefan's point also reminds me of the point about rejecting the CC according to their doctrine....

who would reject what they know to be true?
i'd suppose people would and do do it... but it seems like most of those people are just being influenced by people tell them than by any sort of objective rejection.

probably, to say only God can know tehse things is not just happy go luck avoding issues for politically correctness... but rather there is much truth in the factors God will weight.

[johnnydigit]

i don't know the most correct answer but i'd say the soldier was sincere in his intention and God knows it and considers it, therefore hell would be excused, on to purgatory. ignorance? Scripture does say that the man who didn't know what the master of the house wanted would still be punished, but not as severely.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1473612' date='Mar 7 2008, 02:45 PM']i don't know the most correct answer but i'd say the soldier was sincere in his intention and God knows it and considers it, therefore hell would be excused, on to purgatory.[/quote]

Why purgatory?

[XIX]

As far as I know, the suicide would not be justified. I think most people would conclude that the soldier in question has serious mitigating circumstances which would save his soul. Objectively speaking, though, I think it would be a sin. I don't think the principle of double effect would apply here (would it?)


Anyways, it is really best not to focus on whether someone else's sin is mortal or not mortal, or if a hypothetical or even a real life situation is in hell or heaven. There is simply no way to prove it out either way, and it's very easy to drive yourself insane by trying to figure out what only God really knows. In this sace, it seems pretty obvious that his sin would be venial. But even then, we can never be 100% certain about anyone--not even of John Paul II being in heaven. Or of Judas being in Hell.


I think it's best to avoid asking "who's going to heaven" and better to ask "what ought I do to save my own soul and to help others?" Do what God asks of you, and let God sort out the rest.

[Mitchell_b55]

[quote name='XIX' post='1473696' date='Mar 7 2008, 07:05 PM']But even then, we can never be 100% certain about anyone--not even of John Paul II being in heaven. Or of Judas being in Hell.[/quote]

This is a little misleading. If John Paul II is raised to altar and declared a saint then yes, we can be 100% sure. We can also be 100% sure for the other canonised saints. As for Judas being in hell, technically, your right and while the Church can declare the fate of those who have gone to heaven, she has never declared the fate of those who have gone to hell. Even Dante was just using his damned as literary devices, based on their sins not whether or not they repented.

[Mercy me]

Since the definition of the word suicide is to kill oneself intentionally then no it cannot be justified. If someone does something heroic to possibly save another or to defend another then that persons intention is not to kill himself but is instead self sacrifice. There is a difference.

[XIX]

[quote name='petrus_scholasticus' post='1473813' date='Mar 7 2008, 08:47 PM']This is a little misleading. If John Paul II is raised to altar and declared a saint then yes, we can be 100% sure. We can also be 100% sure for the other canonised saints. As for Judas being in hell, technically, your right and while the Church can declare the fate of those who have gone to heaven, she has never declared the fate of those who have gone to hell. Even Dante was just using his damned as literary devices, based on their sins not whether or not they repented.[/quote]
Well we can be 100% if JP2 does become canonized. We might be 99.999% as it is. But he's not canonized yet.

[Didacus]

[quote][i]Il n'existe aucune situation ou un veritable chretient est justifier de s'enlever la vie.[/i][/quote]
[b]Saint Augustin[/b]

Rough translation;

There exist no situation where a true christian is justified in ending their lives.
St. Augustine


This being said, regardless of the situation, suicide remains a sin. Though the circumstance taken into consideration does alleviate guilt - it does not alleviate the fact, nor the effects.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1475017' date='Mar 10 2008, 04:06 PM'][b]Saint Augustin[/b]

Rough translation;

There exist no situation where a true christian is justified in ending their lives.
St. Augustine
This being said, regardless of the situation, suicide remains a sin. Though the circumstance taken into consideration does alleviate guilt - it does not alleviate the fact, nor the effects.[/quote]

Are the facts and effects what ultimately matter when it comes to how God would judge one who committed suicide?

Would anyone with a clear enough mind to operate with full knowledge and consent actually commit suicide? I suppose it's possible, but I highly doubt those qualifications apply in 99% of suicides.

[Mercy me]

I think that it all comes down to intent. By definition, a person committing suicide intends to do so. From that it can be inferred that he also intends to reject god's gift of life. Rejecting god's gifts is not justifiable. At the very least if is pride.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1476387' date='Mar 12 2008, 07:14 PM']I think that it all comes down to intent. By definition, a person committing suicide intends to do so. From that it can be inferred that he also intends to reject god's gift of life. Rejecting god's gifts is not justifiable. At the very least if is pride.[/quote]

I don't think most people people committing suicide regard their life as a gift from God, but then most are suffering from a psychological illness or the victims of abuse, which is where the question of whether they are committing the act out of their free will, or under the duress of illness or abuse.

Besides, if it were so simple, we could presume that all suicide victims are in Hell.

[KnightofChrist]

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14326b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14326b.htm[/url]

The teaching of the Catholic Church concerning the morality of suicide may be summarized as follows:


A. Positive and Direct Suicide

Positive and direct suicide perpetrated without God's consent always constitutes a grave injustice towards Him. To destroy a thing is to dispose of it as an absolute master and to act as one having full and independent dominion over it; but man does not possess this full and independent dominion over his life, since to be an owner one must be superior to his property. God has reserved to himself direct dominion over life; He is the owner of its substance and He has given man only the serviceable dominion, the right of use, with the charge of protecting and preserving the substance, that is, life itself. Consequently suicide is an attempt against the dominion and right of ownership of the Creator. To this injustice is added a serious offence against the charity which man owes to himself, since by his act he deprives himself of the greatest good in his possession and the possibility of attaining his final end. Moreover, the sin may be aggravated by circumstances, such as failure in conjugal, paternal, or filial piety, failure in justice or charity, if by taking his life one eludes existing obligations of justice or acts of charity, which he could and should perform. That suicide is unlawful is the teaching of Holy Scripture and of the Church, which condemns the act as a most atrocious crime and, in hatred of the sin and to arouse the horror of its children, denies the suicide Christian burial. Moreover, suicide is directly opposed to the most powerful and invincible tendency of every creature and especially of man, the preservation of life. Finally, for a sane man deliberately to take his own life, he must, as a general rule, first have annihilated in himself all that he possessed of spiritual life, since suicide is in absolute contradiction to everything that the Christian religion teaches us as to the end and object of life and, except in cases of insanity, is usually the natural termination of a life of disorder, weakness, and cowardice.

The reason we have advanced to prove the malice of a suicide, namely, God's right and dominion, likewise justifies the modification of the general principle: God being the master of our life He may with His own consent remove from suicide whatever constitutes its disorder. Thus do some authorities justify the conduct of certain saints, who, impelled by the desire of martyrdom and especially to protect their chastity did not wait for their executioners to put them to death, but sought it in one manner or other themselves; nevertheless, the Divine will should be certain and clearly manifested in each particular case.

The question is asked: Can one who is condemned to death kill himself if ordered to do so by the judge? Some authors answer this question in the affirmative, basing their argument on the right which society possesses to punish certain malefactors with death and to commission any executioner, hence also the malefactor himself, to carry out the sentence. We share the most widely accepted opinion, that this practice, prevalent in certain countries of the East, is not lawful. Vindictive justice -- and for that matter all justice -- requires a distinction between the subject of a right and that of a duty, hence in the present case between the one who punishes and the one who is punished. Finally, the same principle which forbids anyone to personally compass his own death also forbids him to advise, direct, or command, with the direct intention of suicide, that another should slay him.
B. Positive and Indirect Suicide

Positive but indirect suicide committed without Divine consent is also unlawful unless, everything considered, there is sufficient reason for doing what will cause death to follow. Thus, it is not a sin, but an act of exalted virtue, to go into savage lands to preach the Gospel, or to the bedside of the plague stricken, to minister to them, although they who do so have before them the prospect of inevitable and speedy death; nor is it a sin for workmen in the discharge of duties to climb on roofs and buildings, thus exposing themselves to danger of death, etc. All this is lawful precisely because the act itself isgood and upright, for in theory the persons in question have not in view either as end or means the evil result, that is, death, that will follow, and, moreover, if there be an evil result it is largely compensated for by the good and useful result which they seek. On the other hand there is sin in exposing oneself to danger of death to display courage, to win a wager, etc., because in all these cases the end does not in any way compensate for the danger of death that is run. To judge whether or not there is sufficient reason for an act which will apparently be followed by death, all the circumstances must be weighed, namely, the importance of thegood result, the greater or less certainty of its being attained, the greater or less danger of death, etc., all questions which may in a specific case be very difficult to solve.
C. Negative and Direct Suicide

Negative and direct suicide without the consent of God constitutes the same sin as positive suicide. In fact man has over his life only the right of use with corresponding obligations to preserve the object of God's dominion, the substance of his life. Hence, it follows obviously that he fails in this obligation of usufructuary who neglects the necessary means for the preservation of life, and this with the intention of destroying the latter, and consequently violates the rights of God.
D. Negative and Indirect Suicide

Negative and indirect suicide without the consent of God is also an attempt against the rights of the Creator and an injustice towards Him whenever without sufficient cause a man neglects all the means of preservation of which he should make use. If a man as usufructuary is obliged in justice to preserve his life, it follows that he is equally bound to make use of all the ordinary means which are indicated in the usual course of things, namely:

* he should employ all the ordinary means which nature itself provides, such as to eat, drink, sleep, and so on;
* moreover, he should avoid all dangers which he may easily avoid, e.g. to flee from a burning house, to escape from an infuriated animal when it may be done without difficulty.

In fact to neglect the ordinary means for preserving life is equivalent to killing one's self, but the same is not true with regard to extraordinary means. Thus theologians teach that one is not bound in order to preserve life to employ remedies which, considering one's condition, are regarded as extraordinary and involving extraordinary expenditure; one is not obliged to undergo a very painful surgical operation, nor a considerable amputation, nor to go into exile in order to seek a more beneficial climate, etc. To use a comparison, the lessee of a house is bound to take care of it as becomes agood father of a family, to make use of the ordinary means for the preservation of the property, for instance, to extinguish a fire which he may easily extinguish, etc., but he is not bound to employ means considered extraordinary, such as to procure the latest novelties invented by science to prevent or extinguish fire.