Controversy Over Mandatory Reporting Of Confession

[Hirsap]

The Summa Theologica [Supp., Q11, Article 3; [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5011.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5011.htm[/url]] says something very interesting on this matter, I read a while back:

[quote]Further, the reason why a man is bound to keep secret what he hears in confession, is because[b] he knows them, not as man but as God knows them[/b]. But the priest alone is God's minister. Therefore he alone is bound to secrecy.[/quote] emphasis mine.

As a human, the priest knows nothing what was revealed to him, for he acts as Christ. It's Christ acting in the Sacrament. That's sort of what I gather.

[farglefeezlebut]

IMO, if a person confesses to a serious crime, their penance should be to turn themself in to the police.

[Autumn Dusk]

The problem here, is really the idea of a child "confessing" a sin that is not theirs.

Mandatory reporting becomes sketchy here.

Priests need more training in a desperate way. Fact is there is a problem and it NEEDS appropriate attention. I speak from experience on this, and realize the pain that could of been spared me if a priest had known what to do.

[S][N]

Can't believe how some people just completely overlook the fact that this could save lives, in the literal and non-literal sense.

From an ex-Catholic perspective and having grown up with the sacraments, I understand how one can be offended by this. But then at the sametime one cannot just ignore the facts that a priest, pastor etc, not telling the Police about such persons leaves the public open to serious danger.

For example. If I had a daughter who was raped, and this guy went to confession just days earlier telling a priest he doesn't know if he can stop. I'd want that priests head on a plate not to mention every Church authority.

I think in any circumstances, the seal of the confession must be broken if life is in danger.

And it's pretty hypocritical of people to be Pro-Life against abortion but then have a problem with a priest telling police about a murderer, rapist or pedophile.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='S][N' post='1471796' date='Mar 1 2008, 05:18 PM']
Can't believe how some people just completely overlook the fact that this could save lives, in the literal and non-literal sense.

From an ex-Catholic perspective and having grown up with the sacraments, I understand how one can be offended by this. But then at the sametime one cannot just ignore the facts that a priest, pastor etc, not telling the Police about such persons leaves the public open to serious danger.

For example. If I had a daughter who was raped, and this guy went to confession just days earlier telling a priest he doesn't know if he can stop. I'd want that priests head on a plate not to mention every Church authority.

I think in any circumstances, the seal of the confession must be broken if life is in danger.

And it's pretty hypocritical of people to be Pro-Life against abortion but then have a problem with a priest telling police about a murderer, rapist or pedophile.[/quote]

As somebody has already said, making it compulsory for priests to become whistleblowers would just prevent criminals from going to confession. It wouldn't actually cause a reduction in this type of crime - especially when you consider that criminals who 'don't know if they can stop' are highly unlikely to be going to Confession anyway. To receive absolution, you have to have what the Church calls 'a strong purpose of amendment' - the will to turn your life around. When I confessed that I had been unkind to a friend, the priest told me (independently of my penance) that I had to put things right with my friend, and because I was repentant, I did so. I [i]wanted[/i] to do so. If a criminal intends to go on committing crimes, he can't receive the absolution - Confession isn't like an advance cheque that pays off your sins for the next month.

If a criminal is truly sorry and wants to confess, the confessional should still not be treated as the precursor to a prison interview room. Being able to trust that God loves him and that there is another human being who is going to listen without probing or judging could be the strength that the criminal takes away from the confessional, the strength to turn himself in to the police. If he knows that the priest is just an (untrained and ill-qualified) extension of the law, that lesson in trust - so crucial to anybody who is turning away from a life of sin - would be lost. And how is it possible for anybody to repent properly unless they know that someone, somewhere is willing to trust them and to believe whole-heartedly that they have it in them to make amends?

After the confession is over, the priest could of course offer to accompany the penitent to the police station, and the penitent might accept. However, the priest would not be doing that in his capacity as a confessor, but as a pastoral figure.

[Brother Adam]

No civil court can make a law mandating priests to break the seal of confession. If they do, the priest, under the penalty of excommunication, has to keep it, even if it means prison. Forcing priests to break the seal of confession would seriously harm the salvation of souls who now know they cannot be upfront and honest with their confessors and thus with God.

However, in the simplest terms, part of confession is not only the resolution not to commit a sin again, but to make restitution for any wrongs. In the case of robbing a bank, you have to give the money back and accept the consequence, for a pedophile, you have to make up for the wrong you did.

[S][N]

2 the past 2 Posts.

I agree completely with confession not only being a sign of asking for gods forgiveness but a willingness to change...however...lets be honest here...how many people goto confession wanting to change, or being able to change certain sinful habits?

And to a more important point...how many catholics actually know this about why confession is what it is? Lets be frank here, Catholics are one of the most ignorant flocks concerning their own religion! So it wouldnt be much of a stretch to say, someone committing these crimes, wouldnt have a clue about what confession is about, and is only confessing cause he feels he can talk to that someone without consequence and continue his acts.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

In all of this the thing that makes me wonder is...
Child abuse is not a singular isolated incident in these cases which prove so controversial. Child abuse is a severe sickness, that cannot just magically go away with therapy and medication.
That being said, Chances are if someone comes into confession who suffers from such a sickness, they will harm other children that they come into contact with.
That is good enough reason, statistical reason, scientific reason, quantifiable reason, backed by enough research, to suggest that the "penitent" cannot just leave the sacrament absolved and not be in danger himself, and every innocent child that he comes into contact with.
The complexity in these cases of the heart of the penitent, is not so clear cut, as yeah i intend to never do it again.
I just know so many people who have been sexually abused to say, okay lets allow put children in harms way.
On the other hand, as someone with a strong inclination to priestly ministry, i feel it is important to protect the sacred seal of the sacrament.

The only Scripture that comes to mind is "Sabbath was created for Man, and not Man for the Sabbath."

SHALOM
Bro Mark

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='S][N' post='1472116' date='Mar 2 2008, 02:04 AM']
And to a more important point...how many catholics actually know this about why confession is what it is? Lets be frank here, Catholics are one of the most ignorant flocks concerning their own religion! So it wouldnt be much of a stretch to say, someone committing these crimes, wouldnt have a clue about what confession is about, and is only confessing cause he feels he can talk to that someone without consequence and continue his acts.[/quote]

A much over used cliche to be sure. While the "lapsed Catholic" or "ex-Catholic" are counted as the second biggest denomination in the US, those who do go to confession, likely have a rudimentary understanding of what confession is, and while there are many Catholics ignorant of the complexities of the Catholic faith, it is getting much, much better in many areas of the country, and will continue to do so. If someone who is not Catholic goes to confession, whatever the motive for a person going to confession, the priest would inform him during confession of his obligation to make restitution for the wrong he did. If he isn't Catholic, he cannot receive the sacrament as it is, though the priest can offer counsel. The priest is bound by God's law never to reveal what is told to him in a confession. Trying to force priests to reveal private confessions is like trying to force lawyers to give up attorney/client confidentiality. It is not going to happen.

[S][N]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1472210' date='Mar 2 2008, 09:08 AM']A much over used cliche to be sure. While the "lapsed Catholic" or "ex-Catholic" are counted as the second biggest denomination in the US, those who do go to confession, likely have a rudimentary understanding of what confession is, and while there are many Catholics ignorant of the complexities of the Catholic faith, it is getting much, much better in many areas of the country, and will continue to do so. If someone who is not Catholic goes to confession, whatever the motive for a person going to confession, the priest would inform him during confession of his obligation to make restitution for the wrong he did. If he isn't Catholic, he cannot receive the sacrament as it is, though the priest can offer counsel. The priest is bound by God's law never to reveal what is told to him in a confession. Trying to force priests to reveal private confessions is like trying to force lawyers to give up attorney/client confidentiality. It is not going to happen.[/quote]

[b]"it is getting much, much better in many areas of the country"[/b]

Yup, I agree. When I was Catholic here in Aus, we had quite a few programs to help getting the misconceptions fixed up (Thanks Fundamentalism ). I was signed upto a few, mainly doing brochures and whatnot.

I know Karl Keating and a few other online organizations have done wonders in the US for this.

Imo, most Catholics do have a basic understanding of Catholicism, but it's more along the lines; "You gotta goto Mass, you gotta goto confession every week, but why am I going?". I don't believe they know [u]why[/u] there going to mass or confession or a baptism etc. And while some would know that Communion is so you can recieve Christ, and confession is there so you can [i]repair[/i] your relationship with god, and/or better yourself and therefore your relationship with god. They still don't understand whats really required, IE: the genuineness behind the act.

I think a good comparison would be the Muslim prayers, 5 times daily like a machine. It's more of a mechanical motion than genuine intent behind it.

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I agree majority of priests would goto jail rather than break the Seal, but the wake from such an act would severely hurt the Church imo. All I can say is, it'd get very messy on both sides.

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And just a quick thought; has anyone seen the irony here?

Xtians try to push their religious morals on a secular society through legislation and get up in arms when it gets shut down, but when non-xtians do the same...they start yelling "religious persecution"? lol Where-as xtians believe their "helping"...much the same position of the secular front I'll admit.