Should Heterosexuals Be Allowed To Breathe?

[Like a Child]

no burgers for me, thanks. . .

Although I disagree about the "disorder" thing, I DO think we are all called to chastity.

And also, two people of the same gender wanting to get married and believing they should have the same rights as everyone else does not equate to "forcing" their way of life on society.

Sorry to disappoint, but there is no "gay agenda" as so many seem to believe. Gays and lesbians just want to be treated the same way as you or I are treated. They know they deserve such equality and so they fight for it.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Like a Child' post='1027672' date='Jul 20 2006, 04:50 PM']
And also, two people of the same gender wanting to get married and believing they should have the same rights as everyone else does not equate to "forcing" their way of life on society.
[/quote]
The problem with this is that marriage is a Sacrament, not a legal union of two citizens. Civil marriage is meaningless outside man-made secular law - both for hetero and homosexuals according to the Church. Rights cannot be demanded from God, and Scripture is very clear when it speaks on homosexual relationships. God bless!

[Era Might]

[quote]And also, two people of the same gender wanting to get married and believing they should have the same rights as everyone else does not equate to "forcing" their way of life on society.[/quote]
Just believing it? No. They're not content with just believing it. That's why they're trying to change the law right now, and it's also why they won't let the people vote on the matter. They want to force their morality on us.

[quote]Sorry to disappoint, but there is no "gay agenda" as so many seem to believe. Gays and lesbians just want to be treated the same way as you or I are treated. They know they deserve such equality and so they fight for it.[/quote]
Believe me, I treat homosexuals the same way I treat everyone else. When they're wrong, I tell them so, and I call them to the love of God and the truth he has revealed in Christ. Homosexuality, like contraception, like greed, like pride, like malice, is a sin. Homosexuals aren't the only sinners in the world; they just happen to be in the news right now.

Homosexuals are just as free as anyone else to marry a person of the opposite sex. Heterosexuals are not free to marry whoever they want. They are limited to the opposite sex as well. There is no double standard. If a heterosexual wants to marry their mother, we say no, because a child cannot marry its mother.

When heterosexuals want abortion on demand, I tell them no. When heterosexuals want pornography on demand, I tell them no. When heterosexuals want divorce on demand, I tell them no. I do not discriminate when it comes to sin. If I'm gonna call heterosexuals to holiness, I have to do the same for homosexual persons.

Otherwise, I WILL be depriving them of a basic human right, the right to know the truth that sets them free.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Like a Child' post='1027608' date='Jul 20 2006, 01:20 PM']
Lions and tigers and homophobes, oh my!
Lions and tigers and homophobes, oh my!
Lions and tigers and homophobes, oh my!

Why are you SO threatened by homosexuality?
What is so disordered in YOU that makes you this defensive and spiteful?
Get OVER it! There will always gay people around to torture your delicate sensibilities

. . .and they'll always dress better than you too. :
[/quote]
Way to ad hominem . . .

Back to the topic, it's silly to pretend like the Church's teachings on homosexuality are just the personal opinions of some folks on Phatmass.
That homosexuality is sinful and disordered is the clear and constant teaching of the Church, as clearly found in the Bible (in both the Old and New Testament), the Catechism, and the teachings of the Fathers of the Church through the centuries.

Perhaps you should address that issue, rather than calling names ("homophobe") and attacking the character of those who disagree with you.

As Christians, we are to defend Christian morality whenever it is under public attack, and to call sin by its name, no matter how politically-incorrect it may be. Thus we speak out against homosexuality when it is promoted as good, just as we speak out against contraception, abortion, and other evils.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Like a Child' post='1027608' date='Jul 20 2006, 01:20 PM']
Lions and tigers and homophobes, oh my!
Lions and tigers and homophobes, oh my!
Lions and tigers and homophobes, oh my!

Why are you SO threatened by homosexuality?
[/quote]


I am threatened by nothing, I have Christ thus I have nothing to fear. I am not a homophobe. I am a sinner, but I repent of those sins.

[quote name='Like a Child' post='1027608' date='Jul 20 2006, 01:20 PM']
What is so disordered in YOU that makes you this defensive and spiteful?
Get OVER it! There will always gay people around to torture your delicate sensibilities

. . .and they'll always dress better than you too. :
[/quote]

Simpley because I defeat your opinion with logic and fact doesnt make me spiteful. However I do have a heart disorder which will probably not let me live past the age of 30, and I'm 25, guess that could be a delicate sensibility, but I dont think so... What makes you so prideful and rude? You know that when Christ returns He will defeat Satan, all sin, and cast all unrepented sinners into everlasting fire. Pridefull unrepented sinners will not be around forever ("gay" or straight) to torture true christians.

[quote]
All the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They prostrated themselves before the throne, worshiped God,
12
and exclaimed: "Amen. Blessing and glory, wisdom and thanksgiving, honor, power, and might be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
13
Then one of the elders spoke up and said to me, "Who are these wearing white robes, and where did they come from?"
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I said to him, "My lord, you are the one who knows." He said to me, "These are the ones who have survived the time of great distress; 8 they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
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"For this reason they stand before God's throne and worship him day and night in his temple. The one who sits on the throne will shelter them.
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They will not hunger or thirst anymore, nor will the sun or any heat strike them.
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For the Lamb who is in the center of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to springs of life-giving water, 9 and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."[/quote]

Cant think of a better way to live and to be dress...

[matthew1618]

I think they should only be allowed to breathe Wednesdays and Tuesdays. On Mondays and Fridays they should only be allowed b/t 8:00am to 5:00pm.

Thank you for your serious question.

[Like a Child]

I'm sorry you all took that personally. . .really I was just trying to have fun with you. I guess the title of this thread made me feel a bit freer with my responses.

Although I vehemently disagree with you on this issue, I respect that at least you are willing to take a stand on something. . .most people in this day and age aren't willing to stand up for much of anything.

I just wish this stand of yours wasn't so hurtful to others. Don't doubt for an instant that it is.

[Aloysius]

don't doubt for an instant that the other stand, the one which considers homosexuality perfectly acceptable, is not also hurtful to others (i.e. those who went through a lot of suffering to overcome their homosexual attractions)

see, your side can be guilted too. hurt feelings are a part of life. if you're not being hurtful to one side of an issue, chances are you're being hurtful to the other side.

[Like a Child]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1028034' date='Jul 20 2006, 08:41 PM']
I am threatened by nothing, I have Christ thus I have nothing to fear. I am not a homophobe. I am a sinner, but I repent of those sins.
Simpley because I defeat your opinion with logic and fact doesnt make me spiteful. However I do have a heart disorder which will probably not let me live past the age of 30, and I'm 25, guess that could be a delicate sensibility, but I dont think so... What makes you so prideful and rude? You know that when Christ returns He will defeat Satan, all sin, and cast all unrepented sinners into everlasting fire. Pridefull unrepented sinners will not be around forever ("gay" or straight) to torture true christians.
Cant think of a better way to live and to be dress...
[/quote]

I'm very sorry to hear about your heart condition. . .God willing, you'll live way past 30.

To be truthful, this conversation is sad and exhausting for me. All I'm trying to do is speak up for my gay brothers and sisters, who have to put up with the kind of judgmentalism and misinformation that one finds all over this forum, every day of their lives. (And what do I get in return. . .nonsense about not being a "true" Christian and everlasting fire. Yawn. . .)

God love gay people; they are put through so much carp in this life. Innocent as you all may think your judgments are, they are not. Just look at the suicide rate among gay men to figure that one out. Or look at the countless hate crimes still perpetrated against gays and lesbians in our country and around the world. It's "innocent" attitudes like yours that build into an oppressive, hateful fury and cost many young men and women their lives.

My advice to those with anti-gay sentiments would be to keep quiet about it. Focus on your own sins. I know you think you are doing good by telling everybody what the "teaching of the Church" is, but honestly, you're doing more harm than good. Maybe if you better understood where gay people are coming from, you could approach folks with your feelings about homosexuality in a more charitable manner.

One thing that might help you understand where gay people are coming from is to watch Brokeback Mountain. It is such a heart-wrenching love story. The themes of the movie are so familiar to all of us that you forget you're watching a movie about a relationship between two men. All you can feel when you watch it is the familiar ache of desire, heartbreak, and loss. It's a beautiful film. . .

I don't know what else I can say. . .I think I'm done with this topic. Wanna drop it for now?

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1028324' date='Jul 21 2006, 10:58 AM']
don't doubt for an instant that the other stand, the one which considers homosexuality perfectly acceptable, is not also hurtful to others (i.e. those who went through a lot of suffering to overcome their homosexual attractions)

see, your side can be guilted too. hurt feelings are a part of life. if you're not being hurtful to one side of an issue, chances are you're being hurtful to the other side.
[/quote]

Point taken, Aloysius. I don't want to hurt anyone. . .and I apologize if I have.

Peace,
Like a Child

[Era Might]

Like A Child,

How do you know we don't suffer from homosexual inclinations or unchastity?

Homosexuality, unfortunately, has become a politicized cause, so people no longer see it for what it is, a sexual disorder.

How do you know we AREN'T focusing on our own sins? Maybe homosexuality (or unchastity in general) IS our sin, and we are trying to show people the depravity that we ourselves have known and experienced?

Why should we exclude homosexual persons from the truth? That's not very nice. We don't exclude pedophiles from the truth. We don't exclude thieves from the truth. We don't exclude terrorists from the truth.

The idea that recognizing homosexuality for what it is means you are "judgemental" or "uncharitable" is a perfect illustration of how the gay agenda has won. We don't get sensitive when we recognize pedophilia as a sin, as a disorder, even though there are people who are really attracted to children. Why? Because pedophilia hasn't been politicized yet. People still see it for what it is, although that is changing, unfortunately, as it gains acceptance in some circles. It won't be long before the APA decides that pedophilia is fine and healthy.

Whether or not we suffer from unchastity is irrelevant. I was just making a rhetorical point that you're presuming that other people can't relate to homosexual persons. But anyone who has converted from an irreligious life knows the emptiness of a licentious culture. A homosexual can't imagine themselves apart from homosexuality anymore than an alcoholic can imagine themselves without a beer in hand, or someone addicted to pornography can imagine themselves chaste and sober. But nature, and nature's God, has so much more in store for us than those empty pleasures of the flesh. A homosexual person, like the alcoholic, like the pornography addict, like the atheist, is a child of God. Their sin degrades that reality. Which is why we must call them to the liberty that is in Christ, a liberty that cannot be found in the homosexual lifestyle, or any lifestyle that degrades the nature of man.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Era Might

[Aloysius]

the point is that either side taken can hurt someone, I'm saying we shouldn't be concerned about whose feelings we hurt when speaking the truth. hurt feelings are a natural part of life which build up strength and sometimes reveal to us where we need to change.

the suicide rate among gays has to do not only with societatal acceptance, gays commit suicide even when living in gay friendly communities.

If you are concerned about misinformation and the experts, I suggest you research Dr. Robert Spitzer, the psychologist who was mainly responsible for having homosexuality taken off the APA's list of psychological disorders in the 70s. More recently, he did an extensive and very critical study of the techniques used to treat people with homosexual disorders among those who still work that way, and he found that the underlying anger and gender issues which were treated actually correlated directly to the conversion from homosexuality to regular sexuality. This expert changed his mind based on solid non-biased research.

the men in brokeback mountain were selfish and not self-disciplined enough to stay faithful to their spouses and loyal to their families. to me, it is a very vivid portrayal of exactly how disordered this type of pseudo-love is, and how selfish and disordered most "love" in our modern culture, even between men and women, is. this misunderstood meaning of love is destroying families and marriages and society because it makes love selfish, self-serving, seeking of what makes one personally happy.

true love would sacrifice the one thing you most want in the world for the betterment of another.

[Era Might]

I added this post to the previous one.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Era Might

[Like a Child]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1028334' date='Jul 21 2006, 11:31 AM']
Like A Child,

How do you know we don't suffer from homosexual inclinations or unchastity?

Homosexuality, unfortunately, has become a politicized cause, so people no longer see it for what it is, a sexual disorder.

How do you know we AREN'T focusing on our own sins? Maybe homosexuality (or unchastity in general) IS our sin, and we are trying to show people the depravity that we ourselves have known and experienced?

Why should we exclude homosexual persons from the truth? That's not very nice. We don't exclude pedophiles from the truth. We don't exclude thieves from the truth. We don't exclude terrorists from the truth.

The idea that recognizing homosexuality for what it is means you are "judgemental" or "uncharitable" is a perfect illustration of how the gay agenda has won. We don't get sensitive when we recognize pedophilia as a sin, as a disorder, even though there are people who are really attracted to children. Why? Because pedophilia hasn't been politicized yet. People still see it for what it is, although that is changing, unfortunately, as it gains acceptance in some circles. It won't be long before the APA decides that pedophilia is fine and healthy.

Whether or not we suffer from unchastity is irrelevant. I was just making a rhetorical point that you're presuming that other people can't relate to homosexual persons. But anyone who has converted from an irreligious life knows the emptiness of a licentious culture. A homosexual can't imagine themselves apart from homosexuality anymore than an alcoholic can imagine themselves without a beer in hand, or someone addicted to pornography can imagine themselves chaste and sober. But nature, and nature's God, has so much more in store for us than those empty pleasures of the flesh. A homosexual person, like the alcoholic, like the pornography addict, like the atheist, is a child of God. Their sin degrades that reality. Which is why we must call them to the liberty that is in Christ, a liberty that cannot be found in the homosexual lifestyle, or any lifestyle that degrades the nature of man.
[/quote]

Just by chance, really, I have lived in several ultra-gay, ultra-secular communities throughout my life (Capitol Hill in Seattle being the most recent) so I know a certain "sort" of gay person very well. They are the types that participate in PRIDE parades and are very open about their orientation. . .so you're right, it's hard for me to remember that there are people out there with homosexual attractions who aren't open about them, and who, in fact, are trying to fight against them. Someone like that could very well be on this forum. . . and struggling, struggling, struggling.

(By the way, EM, I grew up in Quincy, MA. . .

[Era Might]

Ah, you're from The People's Republic of Massachusetts.

I knew you were a dirty liberal.

: : :

I jest, of course.

[heavenseeker]

whats with the poll?