Fidei Defensor Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1469743' date='Feb 27 2008, 03:07 AM']I meant that you have yet to prove that global warming is man-caused. If you think that you can prove that in one paragraph, I have very little respect for you.[/quote] I'm not going to pull out every minute detail of the situation in order to prove to you that humans are the cause. You are just being difficult. Its not hard to figure out. Humans increase production of CO2, produce more CO2 than nature creates naturally -> CO2 holds heat energy much more than most any other atmospheric gas (save methane) -> rise in global temperature. And this situation can be looked at the same as pascal's wager. You can either ignore the issue and hope the earth won't see huge changes, the consequence being either you'll be okay or you'll have to live with the changes in the world. Or, you can make changes to your lifestyle and help reduce carbon emissions. Either you'll have wasted your time or the earth will be better because of the changes. Which sounds like a better bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommas_boy Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Since this is such a hot-button issue, any Chicagoan Phatmassers care to join me at Fermilab tommorrow for the Global Warming summit? www.gwsummit.org It's Thursday, 7-8:30. Admission and parking are both free. Go to the link for more info, and PM me so we can meet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommas_boy Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1469506' date='Feb 26 2008, 08:29 PM'](BTW: If we burn methane, the concentration of methane would not increase...)[/quote] That's assuming that all of the methane burns, and burns completely. This is hardly ever the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 [url="http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Widescale+Glbal+Cooling/article10866.htm"]http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monit...rticle10866.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1469801' date='Feb 27 2008, 07:50 AM']Its not hard to figure out. Humans increase production of CO2, produce more CO2 than nature creates naturally -> CO2 holds heat energy much more than most any other atmospheric gas (save methane) -> rise in global temperature.[/quote] Wasn't the carbon in the fossil fuels once in the carbon cycle before it was removed. Now we are just returning it to the cycle. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 lawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 [quote name='notardillacid' post='1470227' date='Feb 27 2008, 06:43 PM']Wasn't the carbon in the fossil fuels once in the carbon cycle before it was removed. Now we are just returning it to the cycle. lol[/quote] The carbon cycle is balanced between the atmosphere, the biosphere and the oceans. The problem is that by burning the fossil fuels, we are converting too much of the carbon in the biosphere into CO2 and putting it into the atmosphere where it can affect how the earth holds heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 But it was in the cycle at one point though, right? Coal is compressed, dead dinosaurs and jungles right? or were they lying to me at school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1470369' date='Feb 27 2008, 09:20 PM']But it was in the cycle at one point though, right? Coal is compressed, dead dinosaurs and jungles right? or were they lying to me at school [/quote] True. All the carbon on earth is in the cycle. But it only has the potential to affect the environment, in terms of holding heat, as a gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) Okay. So you're saying that the human intervention in putting natural materials back into the cycle is... un natural? Edited February 28, 2008 by Sacred Music Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 (edited) two essential facts. one is that studies have shown that the sun cycles have accounted for only a third of the warming that's occurred. the other is that they think 1.5 or so degrees is all that can really be attributed to man made gases. given that the flares will inevitably go down, the question is what to think of that warming that is occuring by us. when solar goes down, our warming wo't matter as much. in the mean time.... how much are we hurting the planet? this is the msot fundamental. it's hard to pin point specific levels of harm with specific temp increases. what true is that we picked a very convenient time to be warming the planet any given solar cycle being up at the moment. to say say our effect is surely causing bad effects is not wise. to say global warming is a hoax is idiotic. the question is w hat to do based on the uncertainty. one thing i'm not sure of is why even if GW is so bad, if that's such a bad thing in the bigger picture. increased crop cycles etc. warmer etc. prob unintended side effects is what we have to worry about. i mean, manhattan would get flooded some, up to the WTC even, but is that so bad overall? pretty expensive an all but i don't know. Edited February 28, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1470618' date='Feb 28 2008, 11:06 AM']Okay. So you're saying that the human intervention in putting natural materials back into the cycle is... un natural?[/quote] Ever hear of the saying "too much of a good thing"? Nature has a balance. We're upsetting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1470844' date='Feb 28 2008, 06:41 PM']Ever hear of the saying "too much of a good thing"? Nature has a balance. We're upsetting it.[/quote] If nature has a balance, then nature will also be able to re-balance herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 [quote name='MissScripture' post='1470848' date='Feb 28 2008, 06:47 PM']If nature has a balance, then nature will also be able to re-balance herself.[/quote] Agreed, I will have to find the statistics, but I read somewhere that Global Cooling periods have a larger negative impact on humans than global warming periods, so what's the big deal here? I think it is rather presumptuous and a tad arrogant to think that we have the ability to negatively or positively impact the natural tendency of the earth to warm and cool. When you consider that many geologists theorize that we haven't actually left the ice ages yet, due to the large number of years involved in each cooling and warming cycle, the number of variables involved just in the earth's relation to the sun (which has the capacity to cause significant changes to the earths climate), and that a single volcanic eruption on the scale of Krakatoa for instance has the ability to put more "greenhouse gas" in the atmosphere than humans have in the last millenium, I think it's safe to say that we won't stop global warming or cooling, or even slow either down. Focus your energy on how to live on a warmer or cooler planet, not on how to stop it, because you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 [quote name='MissScripture' post='1470848' date='Feb 28 2008, 05:47 PM']If nature has a balance, then nature will also be able to re-balance herself.[/quote] While I agree, 6 billion humans also have a tendency to affect nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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