A Good Article On Gay Marriage Or Whatever

[Laudate_Dominum]

I happened upon this article and thought it had a number of good points.

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF03H01

What will end up happening, I do not know...

[crossingstandrewspass]

Well seeing as how I have a cousin who is married into a same-sex relationship, I'm a bit biased going into that article. For one, the marriage has worked out between the two, but I will agree that they are not suitable nor looked highly upon in society or in the Biblical world.

For starters, it's completely against the Bible. There is an exact place, I'm not sure where, but it clearly states, "If one should lie down with a man as he would with a woman he has done the detestable." I think it's somewhere in Leviticus.

Secondly, I think it's morally wrong. Not only by the Roman Catholic Church, but by standards as Christians in this world. This is one of those things that is "of the world," not "of Christ." I think this is one of our first steps toward God not liking the world. It's full of detestable things, and any one of us is liable to take that up once again. I just pray for all those who are like this.

St. Daniel Combini, pray for us.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Well seeing as how I have a cousin who is married into a same-sex relationship, I'm a bit biased going into that article.  For one, the marriage has worked out between the two, but I will agree that they are not suitable nor looked highly upon in society or in the Biblical world. 

For starters, it's completely against the Bible.  There is an exact place, I'm not sure where, but it clearly states, "If one should lie down with a man as he would with a woman he has done the detestable."  I think it's somewhere in Leviticus. 

Secondly, I think it's morally wrong.  Not only by the Roman Catholic Church, but by standards as Christians in this world.  This is one of those things that is "of the world," not "of Christ."  I think this is one of our first steps toward God not liking the world.  It's full of detestable things, and any one of us is liable to take that up once again.  I just pray for all those who are like this.

St. Daniel Combini, pray for us.

Yeah, it's not the be all end all article, but it certainly has some compelling points.

And I think the Scripture verse you're thinking of is Lev 18:22 which says that "you shall not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination."

There is also Lev 20:13 which is even stronger, "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they should be put to death, their blood is upon them."

There are other passages as well, Rom 1:27 describes homosexual acts as unnatural, shameful and a perversity. 1 Cor 6:9 says that people who do homosexual acts will not inherit the kingdom, etc..

There are other Biblical and Theological things that can be said, but this should suffice for God-fearing, Bible-believing Christians like us.

It's a tough thing though because you don't want to condemn people who struggle with it. Let he who has no sin cast the first stone. I have passions and desires that can lead to abominations too. I'm prone to fornication, drukennes, and God only knows what else.

Edited February 19, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum

[phatcatholic]

LaudDom: it's a tough thing though because you don't want to condemn people who struggle with it. Let he who has no sin cast the first stone. I have passions and desires that can lead to abominations too. I'm prone to fornication, drukennes, and God only knows what else.

duuuuude, AMEN to that part!! you have no idea how many protestants i have dialogued with who are convinced that homosexuality in and of itself is sinful. the logical conclusion of this then is that a homosexual is a sinner even if he DOESN'T act on his temptation!! this is just so freakin absurd to me. i mean, HEELLLOOOO, we all suffer from perverse temptations! hell, i'm tempted to masturbate, to jump every hot girl i see, to be addicted to beaver dam near anything! all of humanity is made subject to temptation. but we only sin win we ACT ON that temptation.

but for some reason this obvious distinction escapes people.

as you can see, i get a little heated when i get on this topic

pax christi,

phatcatholic

[Laudate_Dominum]

HEELLLOOOO, we all suffer from perverse temptations! hell, i'm tempted to masturbate, to jump every hot girl i see, to be addicted to beaver dam near anything!

it's good to know I'm not the only one.

But on a positive note, I know that God can remove all of this if He wants and if we become really holy.

There was a time when I was living my consecration to Our Lady with much greater fidelity and making long hours of prayer before the Eucharist and being in the Presence of God all the time. During this time (it lasted for about a year), I hardly experienced impure movements or lustful temptations at all. This gives me hope that maybe someday I'll get that back.

[Guest lundercovera]

good artical! ^_^

i for one am personally for gay marriage, but would never let my deepest passions and desires affect how i act or how law should run (hehe, i'm parodying politicians if you can't tell, i'm just goin the opposite side )

yeah, i know if i found a boy and fell in love it'd make this more difficult an issue to be opposed, which is why i'm NOT seeking out any boys ... however, legally i am TOTALLY AGAINST it, it's horrible economically, it's against the will of the MAJORITY that RULES, it would be the government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong without seeking benefit for the gov't'... like it seeks state benefits with state marriages, it supports a couple so it's in a good position to raise citizens for it. i'm also morally opposed to it, biblical reasons, religious convictions, biological reasons, logical reasons, et. al. :cool:

[FabdaEclectic]

i for one am personally for gay marriage, but would never let my deepest passions and desires affect how i act or how law should run (hehe, i'm parodying politicians if you can't tell, i'm just goin the opposite side )

God love ya, but you're for something that God is clearly against, and I seriously hope that you pray about this and God shows you his will. It's flat out WRONG. The bible not only states this in Leviticus, but in Corinthians as well.

God has made it abundantly clear that marriage is to be between ONE man and ONE woman.

For men to have sex with men and women to have sex with women is wrong and God is disgusted by it.

We should be disgusted by it as well if we truly have the mind of Christ. The should be NO gray area in this. Adam and Eve were the first two. He the husband and she the wife. There was no "Lilith" and there was no "Steve".

Blessings

Fab

[Laudate_Dominum]

God love ya, but you're for something that God is clearly against, and I seriously hope that you pray about this and God shows you his will. It's flat out WRONG. The bible not only states this in Leviticus, but in Corinthians as well.

God has made it abundantly clear that marriage is to be between ONE man and ONE woman.

For men to have sex with men and women to have sex with women is wrong and God is disgusted by it.

We should be disgusted by it as well if we truly have the mind of Christ. The should be NO gray area in this. Adam and Eve were the first two. He the husband and she the wife. There was no "Lilith" and there was no "Steve".

Blessings

Fab

Homophobe!! .. I'm totally kidding!

But seriously, I read his post too and it seemed like at first he was saying he's in favor of gay marriage, but by the end of his post he was saying that he is opposed to it. In light of the totality of this text (in other words in proper context) I interpret the first passage to mean he is in favor of it in the sense that he has those inclinations, but his moral conviction is that it is wrong so he is ultimately not in favor of it. This is just my fallible interpretation.

[Guest lundercovera]

what i meant was i deep down wish it was right, but formorly i am opposed.

my reason and logic and faith tell me i'm opposed.

\\\\\

my inner passions and desires i am for it though :ph34r:

[phatcatholic]

God love ya, but you're for something that God is clearly against, and I seriously hope that you pray about this and God shows you his will. It's flat out WRONG. The bible not only states this in Leviticus, but in Corinthians as well.

God has made it abundantly clear that marriage is to be between ONE man and ONE woman.

For men to have sex with men and women to have sex with women is wrong and God is disgusted by it.

We should be disgusted by it as well if we truly have the mind of Christ. The should be NO gray area in this. Adam and Eve were the first two. He the husband and she the wife. There was no "Lilith" and there was no "Steve".

Blessings

Fab

Fabda,

calm down bro, there is no need to point out how "disgusting" you think it is. lundercovera is fully aware of the christian response to acting on homosexual temptation. futhermore, there are others here at phatmass who struggle w/ this as well. so, for the sake of your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.....

be charitable.

pax christi,

phatcatholic

[Laudate_Dominum]

what i meant was i deep down wish it was right, but formorly i am opposed.

my reason and logic and faith tell me i'm opposed.

\\\\\

my inner passions and desires i am for it though :ph34r:

cool! That's what I thought you were saying. I hope you don't mind my little exigesis of your post. Someone started a thread saying that we tend to read posts like we interpret Scripture and I saw an opportunity to try that out. ;)

Edited February 20, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum

[FabdaEclectic]

Fabda,

calm down bro, there is no need to point out how "disgusting" you think it is. lundercovera is fully aware of the christian response to acting on homosexual temptation. futhermore, there are others here at phatmass who struggle w/ this as well. so, for the sake of your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.....

be charitable.

pax christi,

phatcatholic

Hey homey, I'm very calm.

A lot of cats on here know I'm very charitable, and truly, I really am. But this is a debate that is tearing not only this country apart but the church. There's too much "well, it's ok" going around about this topic.

To me, this is much different than struggling with smoking, drinking or cussing. There are no bills being passed in the senate about smoking, drinking and cussing. This is an abomination to God. Yes, clearly drunkenness, smoking and cussing are all sin, but God doesn't mention them with such fervor. He doesn't mention how cussing and smoking turn his stomach. Yet he does mention homosexuality.

To take a liberal stance and say that "it's ok, just love them" and yet not take a biblical stance of opposition, that's wrong. The word itself says to KILL them. Do you fallah me? KILL them.

Now I don't believe in killing homosexuals ha ha. NO way, however, we can't just sit back and accept it as an alternative lifestyle. Accept the sinner and assist them in overcoming. But accept the sin itself and allow a homosexual to be a part of church government or leadership and you're asking for trouble.

My church doesn't allow you to be in a leadership role if you're a drunk or a smoker which I find NO problem with. Once you overcome, it's all good. No church should allow ANYONE with excessive sin in their lives to be a part of the leadership or government.

Believe me man...I'm one of the most considerate and charitable people you'd care to know. But this topic is serious and should not just be overlooked. If there are phatmassers who struggle with this, then we should definitely attempt to help them overcome it. But to welcome it and accept it as "God made them that way" is B.S. God didn't make anyone that way. It's not biological. It's a demon, plain and simple.

Sometimes I see that being done not only in the Catholic church, but several others as well. If you're gay and struggle with it or practice it, you have NO business in a liturgical position the church. Same as a straight guy or girl who has premarital sex shouldn't.

Blessings

Fab

[Guest lundercovera]

please quote me the bible where it says that having homosexual tendencies is an abomination to God? it doesn't it says lying with man as with woman is an abomination, and woman lying with woman as with man... not someone who has a desire to lie with man as with woman and follows the teachings of the Church refusing to act on it.

what makes you so sure it's not some biological defect? the Bible doesn't say it isn't. i believe for many it's psychological but for some it is biological (the minority of gays in this country it's biological)

i def worded that wrong up there. but deep down inside, ever since i was young, i've been attracted to the same sex. does that make me a damned sinner? will the Church not accept me? of course she will, she will help me overcome this cross i carry hanging off of my right ear (hehe just an expression, dont even have an earing)

[phatcatholic]

Hey homey, I'm very calm.

A lot of cats on here know I'm very charitable, and truly, I really am. But this is a debate that is tearing not only this country apart but the church. There's too much "well, it's ok" going around about this topic.

To me, this is much different than struggling with smoking, drinking or cussing. There are no bills being passed in the senate about smoking, drinking and cussing. This is an abomination to God. Yes, clearly drunkenness, smoking and cussing are all sin, but God doesn't mention them with such fervor. He doesn't mention how cussing and smoking turn his stomach. Yet he does mention homosexuality.

To take a liberal stance and say that "it's ok, just love them" and yet not take a biblical stance of opposition, that's wrong. The word itself says to KILL them. Do you fallah me? KILL them.

Now I don't believe in killing homosexuals ha ha. NO way, however, we can't just sit back and accept it as an alternative lifestyle. Accept the sinner and assist them in overcoming. But accept the sin itself and allow a homosexual to be a part of church government or leadership and you're asking for trouble.

My church doesn't allow you to be in a leadership role if you're a drunk or a smoker which I find NO problem with. Once you overcome, it's all good. No church should allow ANYONE with excessive sin in their lives to be a part of the leadership or government.

Believe me man...I'm one of the most considerate and charitable people you'd care to know. But this topic is serious and should not just be overlooked. If there are phatmassers who struggle with this, then we should definitely attempt to help them overcome it. But to welcome it and accept it as "God made them that way" is B.S. God didn't make anyone that way. It's not biological. It's a demon, plain and simple.

Sometimes I see that being done not only in the Catholic church, but several others as well. If you're gay and struggle with it or practice it, you have NO business in a liturgical position the church. Same as a straight guy or girl who has premarital sex shouldn't.

Blessings

Fab

dude, we get the point. ur preachin to the choir, and u seem to be posting as if there is a disagreement here. i think ur zeal on this issue could be offensive to those here who are struggling w/ this.

[phatcatholic]

please quote me the bible where it says that having homosexual tendencies is an abomination to God? it doesn't it says lying with man as with woman is an abomination, and woman lying with woman as with man... not someone who has a desire to lie with man as with woman and follows the teachings of the Church refusing to act on it.

what makes you so sure it's not some biological defect? the Bible doesn't say it isn't. i believe for many it's psychological but for some it is biological (the minority of gays in this country it's biological)

i def worded that wrong up there. but deep down inside, ever since i was young, i've been attracted to the same sex. does that make me a damned sinner? will the Church not accept me? of course she will, she will help me overcome this cross i carry hanging off of my right ear (hehe just an expression, dont even have an earing)

i agree. the distinction must be made between the temptation and the sin. every bible verse that i have ever seen that people present as damning the person for the mere fact that he has a temptation, actually damns that person whenever he acts on that temptation.

a similar example is an alcoholic. usually, once ur an alcoholic, ur always one. so, an alcoholic can quit drinking and be sober for 20 years and still be an alcoholic. is that person a sinner b/c he has that temptation to drink, even tho he's gone two decades w/o a drop of beer? of course not!! he only sins when he gives in to that temptation and gets drunk.

for some reason this distinction is easy for people to make w/ just about any example........but homosexuality. go figure

fabda, are you disagreeing w/ me on this? if u would like to examine the bible verses in question and the teaching of the Catholic Church on this issue, just let me know.

pax christi,

phatcatholic