Indulgences And The 700 Club Etc.

[thessalonian]

You know, it's been going on for 500 years now. Protestants railing about indulgences, paying to get out of purgatory, you know the routine. We always hear about it. But you know I will be you that the amount of money, even in those days, was small compared to people like the 700 club, benny hinn, oral roberts, Jim Bakers and his wife's shoe collection, etc. etc. Folks ya need to get over it. Just venting a bit. Carry on.

[Paddington]

Pentecostalists.

[CatherineM]

Since they don't believe in purgatory, why should they care how much we pay or pray to stay out of it.

[Paddington]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1467451' date='Feb 23 2008, 12:36 AM']Since they don't believe in purgatory, why should they care how much we pay or pray to stay out of it.[/quote]

Because they don't believe in Purgatory.

[Justin86]

There actually was nothing wrong with the system set up to distribute indulgences back then. The idea was if a Catholic was going to donate money to either the Church or some other charitable organization of goodwill why not give him an indulgence to encourage good Christian behavior? If I remember my "Reformation" history correctly I believe the indulgence Luther took particular offense to was one the Pope had set up to refurnish St. Peter's. Any Catholic who donated a small amount of money to help clean up the Basilica was granted an indulgence. What exactly was the problem with that?

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1467279' date='Feb 22 2008, 01:03 PM']Pentecostalists.[/quote]

Who are Pentecostalists? Jim Baker? Pat Robertson? don't think so. How about Shewler and his Crystal Cathedral? Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking all of this. But there were blessings promised from the 700 club. Certainly the health and wealth Gospel is a fraud. But people don't get near as much venom in them about these things in their own Churches which have at times become corrupt. We don't claim there was never corruption in the Catholic Church. It ebbs and flows. But, while our leaders are provided for by the Church I see alot less lavish living among them.

[Paddington]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1467666' date='Feb 23 2008, 03:56 PM']Who are Pentecostalists? Jim Baker? Pat Robertson? don't think so.[/quote]

Yes they are.

[Paddington]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1467666' date='Feb 23 2008, 03:56 PM']How about Shewler and his Crystal Cathedral?[/quote]

Schuller's teaching seems more Oprah than John Calvin.

Had to edit this one.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Paddington

[Paddington]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1467666' date='Feb 23 2008, 03:56 PM']Certainly the health and wealth Gospel is a fraud. But people don't get near as much venom in them about these things in their own Churches which have at times become corrupt. We don't claim there was never corruption in the Catholic Church. It ebbs and flows. But, while our leaders are provided for by the Church I see alot less lavish living among them.[/quote]

Alright...I have to finish this in one post. Sorry for the extras.

"..the health and wealth Gospel is a fraud."

sounds right

"But people don't get near as much venom in them about these things in their own Churches which have at times become corrupt."

That implies statistics that are not available, but it could be right. However, Schuller and Charismania are regularly poo-poo'd in Protestant circles.


"....I see a lot less lavish living among (our leaders)"

I would bet that too. Protestants (not the Pentecostalists) - generally speaking - pay their pastors as highly-trained professionals who work overtime and have families to support. It does not mean that they make as much as other professionals with the same total amount of education.

[thessalonian]

Schuler may not be considered orthodox but he was duping people, poor people, out of money. Pentecostals of the trinitarian type are still considered Christian. So what is your point. As far as I know baker and Swagart were trinitarian. Swagard was actually Assembly of God if my memory serves me correct. Again where is the outcry against them. Yet Catholics aren't even considered Christains by many of these anti-Catholics and yet they keep pounding the drum. As far as protestants being paid professionals, that is all well and good. This thread isn't so much a criticism of them making a decent living. But the story always goes that the Catholic Church is making big money off the poor through indulgences and stipends and anullments. Yet I don't see it in the lives of the preists and bishops.

[thessalonian]

I just sent him an email telling him my son will be pulled from the class this week. I think a month and a half is sufficient time to answer.

[prose]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1467539' date='Feb 22 2008, 11:39 PM']There actually was nothing wrong with the system set up to distribute indulgences back then. The idea was if a Catholic was going to donate money to either the Church or some other charitable organization of goodwill why not give him an indulgence to encourage good Christian behavior? If I remember my "Reformation" history correctly I believe the indulgence Luther took particular offense to was one the Pope had set up to refurnish St. Peter's. Any Catholic who donated a small amount of money to help clean up the Basilica was granted an indulgence. What exactly was the problem with that?[/quote]

The problem was not that simple. The indulgence problem became to the point that some Churches actually posted lists of sins with the "cost" to get the indulgence to get rid of them. The missed the point of purification.

Indulgences (from my understanding) are not "tickets" out of purgatory, rather, they are ways to purify oneself and in turn, the length of purgatory is lessened. It is not the "buying" of time, but rather the sacrifice that purifies our souls while we are on earth.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1469121' date='Feb 26 2008, 06:59 AM']I just sent him an email telling him my son will be pulled from the class this week. I think a month and a half is sufficient time to answer.[/quote]
i think you have this in the wrong thread

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1467539' date='Feb 23 2008, 01:39 AM']There actually was nothing wrong with the system set up to distribute indulgences back then. The idea was if a Catholic was going to donate money to either the Church or some other charitable organization of goodwill why not give him an indulgence to encourage good Christian behavior? If I remember my "Reformation" history correctly I believe the indulgence Luther took particular offense to was one the Pope had set up to refurnish St. Peter's. Any Catholic who donated a small amount of money to help clean up the Basilica was granted an indulgence. What exactly was the problem with that?[/quote]

You must not know the phrase, "When in the can a coin clings, from purgatory a soul springs."

One of the priests commissioned by the pope building St. Peter's came up with catchy little tunes like this one to sell indulgences, telling people that these monetary exchanges literally delivered souls from purgatory. Whether it was the last two pence you had after drinking the rest away in drunken debauchery didn't matter. Their only concern was raking in the money, making them the Middle Age predecessors to the televangelists on TBN. Martin Luther was right to stand up against this evil practice, but obviously he went wrong in abandoning the Church.

At any rate, TBN and the 700 Club are not fair representations of Protestantism.

Edited February 27, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[Paddington]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1469118' date='Feb 26 2008, 12:20 PM']Schuler may not be considered orthodox but he was duping people, poor people, out of money. Pentecostals of the trinitarian type are still considered Christian. So what is your point. As far as I know baker and Swagart were trinitarian. Swagard was actually Assembly of God if my memory serves me correct. Again where is the outcry against them. Yet Catholics aren't even considered Christains by many of these anti-Catholics and yet they keep pounding the drum. As far as protestants being paid professionals, that is all well and good. This thread isn't so much a criticism of them making a decent living. But the story always goes that the Catholic Church is making big money off the poor through indulgences and stipends and anullments. Yet I don't see it in the lives of the preists and bishops.[/quote]

Plenty of outcry from Protestants against televangelists (Charismatics and Schuller). The story doesn't always go any certain way. Have you googled their names?

As far as my point.....my first post was my point. Pentecostalists. Anything else is just back-and-forth with you.