dairygirl4u2c Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 (edited) inspired by bill clinton at the steubenville rally.... [quote]"You want to criminalize women and their doctors and we disagree,” he said of the pro-life advocates. “If you were really pro-life, if you were really pro-life, you would want to put every doctor and every mother as an accessory to murder in prison. And you won't say you want to do that because you know that because you know that you wouldn't have a lick of political support,” he added.[/quote] i'd also wonder if they'd have a lick of personal support, hence the poll. edit: i made this poll unaware of the other penalty thread. coincidence. the poll might be interesting though Edited February 18, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I don't know. You tell me. What should the penalty for murdering a baby be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote name='XIX' post='1465314' date='Feb 18 2008, 06:47 PM']Basically, it makes no logical sense for us to arrest the mothers. It doesn't help the pro-life movement, because then the mothers would have no motivation to step forward and admit that they had abortions. This would lead to ample problems for the pro-life movement and for the woman. For one, it would basically be the end of "I regret my abortion" and the like. The legal implications are that the parents who have this abortion would have no motivation to rat out the doctors who commit hundreds or thousands of abortions. It's far more important to put a single doctor in jail for 400 life sentences than it is to arrest a woman who has already had an abortion and presumably feels some level of remorse (whether she leads onto it or not). It's the same way with drug dealing. They usually let the crack smoker off easy if cooperate with authorities and help them catch the bigtime dealer. Similarly, I say let the woman off with a slap on the wrist. It's what happened pre-Roe.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) there's such a striking contrast between responses. from murder andor execution and rhetorical questions about how obvious it is that it should be treated like any ohter murder as bro adam says..... to slap on the wrist as XIX says. all amoungst catholics too. what is a good catholic to do? i'd guess those who say slap on the wrist are a little out of line, but. from my perspective, and surely from the catholic church's... even if it's not been defined yet. Edited February 19, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote]waterboarding[/quote] That this is actually an option in your poll is what makes this thread so completely you, dairygirl. In either case I think the idea that the woman should receive any punishment is absurd. It's entirely the fault of the doctor whom we trust to be much more educated on the status of the fetus than the woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jckinsman Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) I watched a "u tube" video on this making the Pro -life movement look bad, posing this question. You had peaceful pro-testers looking like confused idiots,not wanting abortion legal,but not wanting to put the women in prison for there"illegal crime".What an insult to these people. Which got me thinking about this issue. Why is it that we feel bad to put these women in jail for this illegal crime? It is simple,we know about 90% of these women are A.) Frightened B.)Lied Too C.) Un-educated on that it is a crime. Take time to talk to the women who have had one. You will see the truth unfold. So Just ask yourself,"How would you answer this question yourself?" As I did after I saw this Clip. So Being frightened is still not an excuse to do the wrong thing.This is a human being,and they are taking its life. That is the facts. There must be punishment for braking the law. Doctors who do the abortions should be put in prison for life.They are the murderers. WHEN it becomes illegal,they must stop. They are the liars here. They are the ones making the big $ from leagalized killing. As for the women,First offense,1 year of abortion education,they are taught self control,dignity,not only of their life but other human lives,showing them the endless amounts of movies out there like "the silent scream" and such. There is so much information out there we could easily make it longer then a year. Post abortive therapy and working with others. If we could come up with a program to not only educate but also to give these women the dignity and control back into there lives.For it will be goverment run,so the "G" word, is going to be left up to the individual. It can be done,because it is the truth from the one true God, It can stand alone even without words. These women will be attracted to the truth. I would have to say though that after the year if they choose to go back,and do it again,YES I THINK THAT THEY DO NEED JAIL TIME! I would give them 5 years ,and 20 on a third. I will not minimize this offense before God. For we all know that the truth is still the truth and it will come out in the end when we die,so what is more loving???? If nothing else,please think how you would answer this question,for this is just a thought,maybe someday a reality! JC Edited February 19, 2008 by jckinsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If it were made illegal, everyone would KNOW it was a crime, so yes, I believe the mothers should be held responsible, in addition to the doctor. It would not, however, be retroactive, so if you'd already had an abortion, you wouldn't be put in jail for having had one previous to enacting the law. I don't see how that is illogical or how that would hurt the pro-life movement, as the pro-life movement would have been at least somewhat successful in getting abortion made illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Life in prison. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. The unborn child lost all their life, the mother should lose the remainder of theirs. Of course this is assuming they willingly and knowingly seek out the abortion (no one forced them, lied to them or tricked them ect...). Circumstances out of the mother's control can be taken into account by the court to affixe a lighter sentence on a case-per-case basis, but other than that; life in prison. Open and shut case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote name='Didacus' post='1465684' date='Feb 19 2008, 04:27 PM']Life in prison. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. The unborn child lost all their life, the mother should lose the remainder of theirs. Of course this is assuming they willingly and knowingly seek out the abortion (no one forced them, lied to them or tricked them ect...). Circumstances out of the mother's control can be taken into account by the court to affixe a lighter sentence on a case-per-case basis, but other than that; life in prison. Open and shut case.[/quote] Exactly. If the pro-life movement succeeded in getting all abortion criminalised, then the woman & doctor should be imprisoned, provided there was a full understanding that what they were doing was illegal and there was no coercion or whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 the woman will need psychiatric care. the crime of abortion is both a murder of a separate human being, and an act of violence against oneself. justice dictates that the woman and the doctor both deserve death. especially in a case such as this, mercy ought to be shown because of the mitigating circumstances, and instead there ought to be intense psychiatric treatment to help the woman understand the fact that she caused her own baby to die, to deal with that fact, and to mourn that fact. after such intense court mandated treatment, some form of punishment would be necessary up to life in prison. if she were to become pregnant again, some form of probationary supervision would be necessary to ensure that she did not become a danger to her child. this all goes to the heart of your criminal justice philosophy... one must ask: why are people executed? why are people imprisoned? there are two main reasons: 1: to fulfill the demands of justice and punish and 2: to rehabilitate and/or keep society safe from the criminal to the first: the demands of justice can always be tempered by mercy, and ought to be when a crime is committed in the course of a tragic situation like a pregnant woman is unable to afford a child and in an act of desperation procures an abortion. to the second: a woman who procures an abortion only shows herself to be a danger to unborn babies within herself, and if she can be rehabilitated then reconciliation between her and the society is in order. on the other hand, a doctor who performs an abortion shows himself to be a danger to all unbaptized babies in society. I am in favor of very harsh punishments for doctors who perform abortions, up to life in prison and even execution, because they do not have the same mitigating circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1465702' date='Feb 19 2008, 01:02 PM']Exactly. If the pro-life movement succeeded in getting all abortion criminalised, then the woman & doctor should be imprisoned, provided there was a full understanding that what they were doing was illegal and there was no coercion or whatnot.[/quote] Yet did you vote in the poll? No on e else voted life imprisonment with me yet... Aloy, You are correct that mercy and understanding towards the mother should be taken into account, hence my statement of "Circumstances out of the mother's control can be taken into account " which would include mental illness or what not. However, mental illness should not excuse a crime, only help explain it. Life in prison. For the doctor and the mother. Nurses and those who helped (friend driving the mother to the 'clinic', nurses, ecttt) are accessory to murder; 10years + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I picked "other" because I usually pick "refuse to speculate" and it wasn't an option. Dairygirl, waterboarding was on here as a joke, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 [quote name='Didacus' post='1465781' date='Feb 19 2008, 08:46 PM']Yet did you vote in the poll? No on e else voted life imprisonment with me yet... Aloy, You are correct that mercy and understanding towards the mother should be taken into account, hence my statement of "Circumstances out of the mother's control can be taken into account " which would include mental illness or what not. However, mental illness should not excuse a crime, only help explain it. Life in prison. For the doctor and the mother. Nurses and those who helped (friend driving the mother to the 'clinic', nurses, ecttt) are accessory to murder; 10years +[/quote] I hadn't voted yet - got distracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 [quote name='Brother Adam' post='1465465' date='Feb 18 2008, 11:19 PM']I don't know. You tell me. What should the penalty for murdering a baby be?[/quote] Well since the soul would be sent back to the spiritual realm, the couple involved should be forced to create another baby. And they should keep trying until they make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides quarens intellectum Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 nulled my vote - agree that the culpability falls more on the shoulders of the doctors, the media, and anyone else out there promoting abortion on demand. these women have been used and lied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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