Norbertine Nuns Of Tehachapi, Ca

[Guest Perpetualove]

The Holy Spirit speaks to us in different and varied ways. I believe our personal attractions often help identify where we belong and what is right for us. St. Ignatius tells us to pay attention to the details and what brings us peace vs. what brings us anxiety. Laudem, I believe there is a reason you "want" the things you "want," and I hope you don't "settle."

Everybody finds their place in their own way and time, and Jesus, in His merciful Love, waits patiently. I am praying that you find what your heart desires, and in the meantime, as I pray for you, I will ask God that His plan for you unfolds gently and with grace.

"I will seek Him whom my soul loveth..."

[TradMom]

[color="#A0522D"][i]+Praised be Jesus Christ, now and forever!

I am a mother, so my vocation is set. One of my daughters recently left the Carmelite Monastery she was so sure was for her. The Mother Prioress was very sweet, very dear, and most supportive in helping my daughter make this decision and have the strength to follow her own vocation. On a human level, we were thrilled to welcome our daughter home (not to mention - me! - what joy to have her back, and just in time for an extra pair of hands with a new baby is always welcome!), but on a spiritual level, we were also thrilled to welcome her home because we know she is being faithful to her vocation. [color="#FF0000"]She is seeking [/color](what a wonderful quote, Perpetualove!) [color="#FF0000"]whom her soul loveth[/color], and she will know when she finds HIM.

Laudem, I am going to be so very blunt here. I considered the possibility of writing to you privately, but since so much has been said to you publicly, why not this? Some of the words that have been directed to you seemed to me to be very harsh and even biting. As a mother of a woman who is struggling with a Divine Invitation, I see what a tender and emotional state she is in. She is truly attempting to "listen with the ear of her heart," but this, my dear, is very difficult when the chatter and noise of the world often drowns out the gentle whisperings of Our Beloved.

I realize I am reading these posts for a variety of reasons - to gain insight into my own daughter's situation, to help my other daughter who feels called to find the right place, and perhaps to learn something along the way. I realize there is much to do and learn. I want to be supportive and loving, and I want nothing more than to know all of my children will reach heaven. This is my vocation! I also know, dear, that I am reading these posts with the eye of a mother, and I cannot help but transfer a little bit of my own background and natural leanings into what I see.

Anyone who writes as you do, and has the longings you have for monastic life must be a sensitive soul. I cannot imagine anybody able to respond to Christ so completely and fully - even WANTING to respond! - wouldn't have a deep vein of sensitivity and fragility running through their very being. (Now, please! Don't think I am trying to say that all cloistered contemplatives are fragile little butterflies. I know - from direct personal experience! - it takes much courage, strength and interior determination to go along on this path! And stay in it! I have seen some very strong and, even, for lack of a better term...TOUGH!...contemplatives!)

As I sat up with my daughters last night, and spent some quiet time on the computer, and read through these messages, I couldn't help but feel a motherly pang for you, dear Laudem. Your age is not important, because my dear, in the eyes of Our Exiled King, Your Father, you are His daughter, now and forevermore. Good Saint Joseph cares for you just as he did for the Infant Christ, and Our Blessed Mother holds you tenderly in Her mantle, wrapped up close to her Immaculate Heart. (Perhaps a brown mantle??!) You are loved, protected and cherished as much- no, more! - than any of us can fathom!!!

Though you are a grown woman, you must remember you are still a child in this venture of religious life. I absolutely hate to see one treated differently because of age, and I have followed, with great and growing sadness, the perils of some of you "OLDER!" women who have been greeted with an almost hostile attitude based purely on age. To think you have to flee to another country to find your Beloved rents my heart! Truly, you are the daughter of The Exiled King!

Children naturally say "I want!" St. Therese herself said, "I choose everything!" Saint Maximilian Kolbe could not choose between the red and white crown, so chose both. I could go on forever! Any child, no matter how well behaved, says, "I want!" It is natural. You are being introduced to the possibilities of having your heart filled and your innermost desires fulfilled. Of COURSE you say..."I want!"

When I considered marriage, I "wanted," children. I "wanted" a faithful husband in Christ, I "wanted" someone to be my partner in raising children! I "wanted" to feel loved and special! I "wanted" much, and I wasn't shy in telling Our Good Lord. He filled my every desire, and then some. And yes, my dear, like all of us, I received many, many things I didn't dream of or even "want," but when these things came, I had the consolations and strength derived from desires met, and I had matured in grace and experience to handle the unexpected, the unfortunate, the difficult. And so it goes with religious life.

I know many here object to the imagery of a woman being espoused to Jesus as a religious life metaphor, yet, we have many saints who relied heavily on this imagery. I suppose, like other things of the heart and soul, this is very private. Yet, my dear Laudem, I can assure you as I watched my daughter pack and plan for her entrance into Carmel, it was as if I were watching myself years ago preparing for my own marriage! The shared emotions were so evident, and I saw the joy (and even, yes, fear!) in her eyes - just as I had seen them in my own as I prepared for my wedding before my parents' mirror!

Take what I have said as motherly love, support and concern, or just throw it out the window! But whatever you do, my dear, know that I hold you in prayer. I pray especially that you feel supported, encouraged and loved, though I know it must be quite difficult to find this in today's climate! Let that tender piece of your heart that is listening to the Voice of God be protected and safeguarded. As beautiful Saint Clare said, "What you hold, may you always hold..." and let me be the first to offer that powerful prayer of Saint Clare to you. Dear Laudem, may you always hold your dreams and desires...and though we have never met in this world, you are near to me as my own children, for you have a place in my heart. My vocation as Mother didn't stop with my own children. I will pray for you forever, and I beg the same of you.[/i][/color]


[color="#9ACD32"]What you hold may you always hold.
What you do, may you always do and never abandon.
But with swift pace, light step and unswerving feet,
so that even your steps stir up no dust,
Go forward, the spirit of our God has called you. -St. Clare[/color][size="3"][/size]

Edited February 26, 2008 by TradMom

[Laudem Gloriae]

I must say there are many posters who think they know me better than myself! This isn't meant to be mean or biting as many posts has been, as "Tradmom" noticed, but I have been a Lay Carmelite for many years, have been actively discerning with a few spiritual directors (due to moves), a fantastic Mother PCC Abbess, 2 Carmelite Prioresses and mostly with my Beloved - Jesus. So when I say "I want" it entails NONE of the what has been implied in the previous posts.

Yes, I HAVE discerned God's will. I am not running around thinking I know best and what order is best for me, etc. As in many saints, blesseds, venerables and everyday religious - including 2 priests and 2 religious sisters (one active, one contemplative) in my family - many people called to the religious or priestly DO KNOW where they are to go, what type of order they want, etc. And as many of these religious people (family and not) have said that looking for a traditional order (from habit and the rest) is a good thing to look for and be drawn to because, as practically each one has said in varying words, "when a religious order changes a bit, the devil takes a mile". Some many of these supposedly "harmless" changes often don't turn out that way.

Anyway, will I enter one Carmel and leave to enter another - possibly - but going by and through 14 yrs of intense discernment (not 1, 2, 3, or less) and retreats, guidance of good and holy priests and Abbesses, Prioresses and I was even able to talk to a bishop once, when they ALL give me the same guidance and advice independent of each other over these past 14 yrs and still do and what I receive from God in hours of mental prayer, adoration, etc. every week, I am confident in what I say and seek. Many of these these I seek in the traditional orders came to me during prayer and from my spiritual directors and, yes, my own preferences.

So as I write this I am actually smiling happily because I am filled with the joy of God. I have been called by God since a young girl and then teens. Why I didn't pursue my vocation then is from immaturity, fear, lack of information and stupidity! But things are in God's time. More than likely I never would have persevered if I entered in my 20's perhaps.

The interior consolations have been great since I first heard His voice in my heart and soul calling me to Himself, but they only increase my thirst for Him even more. It is a sweet torture, this love for Jesus, and I can't imagine why the whole world doesn't fall to their knees in adoration of Him and want to be his spouse! Long years would pass before I could see the fulfillment of my heart's and cherished desire. Jesus has prepared me during this long wait in countless ways and has made me stronger, more committed to Him, helped me to know what I am to sacrifice, what entering a cloister means in all ways. But time and obstacles only served to strengthen my resolution of entrance into where Jesus wants me and where my sole purpose will be to live for God alone, for prayer, for sacrifice, to adore and praise Jesus and pray for souls. To me, each day outside here is an eternity.

[DameAgnes]

Gosh, I am really sorry to read that my post - which responded to nothing more than a poster's own words, and which asked nothing more than "are you sure you're really being truly open" with what I had thought conveyed a sincere charity of heart and hopes for the poster's intentions - has been received as "biting" and, apparently, uncharitable.

I don't think I ever implied that Laudem should not have a preference or an idea of what she wanted. Preferences, after all, are what inspire, motivate and guide us.

I just wondered - rather gently, I thought (and I thought I made it clear I was wondering it about all of us, myself included, in all of our vocations of life) - if the Holy Spirit was being given all the room He might need to maneuver...a good question asked in good faith, since we - all of us - tend to get rather narrow about what we feel called to. That's one of the reasons, I think, God so frequently shakes us up in life - to help prevent us from becoming too fastidious, as it were, and to keep us open.

But hey, Laudem, more power to you in your certainty! I will continue to pray for your intention and hope you find what you feel called to and what you have long-discerned - and I do so gladly, knowing a little something myself about long and winding roads to one's destiny.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I appreciated what you wrote, DameAgnes. It came at a very appropriate moment for me, at a time when I am being asked to give up so much of what I had planned for next year and do something that I had never anticipated. The things that I had originally planned to do were good things, holy things even, and because of this it was difficult for me to realise that God might have something completely different in store.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[RosaMystica]

Hi! I love reading your blog! I think it's awesome that you're so on fire with finding a convent for you and not being discouraged with the whole age thing. I have two suggestions (you probably already know of these monasteries), the Dominican Nuns in Farmington Hills, MI (Monastery of the Blessed Sacrament), and the Visitandine Nuns in Toledo, OH. I've known the Dominican Nuns in MI for a really long time and they are a really great group. They are also very open about "older age" vocations. God bless!

[inperpetuity]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1469404' date='Feb 26 2008, 07:07 PM']I must say there are many posters who think they know me better than myself! This isn't meant to be mean or biting as many posts has been, as "Tradmom" noticed, but I have been a Lay Carmelite for many years, have been actively discerning with a few spiritual directors (due to moves), a fantastic Mother PCC Abbess, 2 Carmelite Prioresses and mostly with my Beloved - Jesus. So when I say "I want" it entails NONE of the what has been implied in the previous posts.

Yes, I HAVE discerned God's will. I am not running around thinking I know best and what order is best for me, etc. As in many saints, blesseds, venerables and everyday religious - including 2 priests and 2 religious sisters (one active, one contemplative) in my family - many people called to the religious or priestly DO KNOW where they are to go, what type of order they want, etc. And as many of these religious people (family and not) have said that looking for a traditional order (from habit and the rest) is a good thing to look for and be drawn to because, as practically each one has said in varying words, "when a religious order changes a bit, the devil takes a mile". Some many of these supposedly "harmless" changes often don't turn out that way.

Anyway, will I enter one Carmel and leave to enter another - possibly - but going by and through 14 yrs of intense discernment (not 1, 2, 3, or less) and retreats, guidance of good and holy priests and Abbesses, Prioresses and I was even able to talk to a bishop once, when they ALL give me the same guidance and advice independent of each other over these past 14 yrs and still do and what I receive from God in hours of mental prayer, adoration, etc. every week, I am confident in what I say and seek. Many of these these I seek in the traditional orders came to me during prayer and from my spiritual directors and, yes, my own preferences.

So as I write this I am actually smiling happily because I am filled with the joy of God. I have been called by God since a young girl and then teens. Why I didn't pursue my vocation then is from immaturity, fear, lack of information and stupidity! But things are in God's time. More than likely I never would have persevered if I entered in my 20's perhaps.

The interior consolations have been great since I first heard His voice in my heart and soul calling me to Himself, but they only increase my thirst for Him even more. It is a sweet torture, this love for Jesus, and I can't imagine why the whole world doesn't fall to their knees in adoration of Him and want to be his spouse! Long years would pass before I could see the fulfillment of my heart's and cherished desire. Jesus has prepared me during this long wait in countless ways and has made me stronger, more committed to Him, helped me to know what I am to sacrifice, what entering a cloister means in all ways. But time and obstacles only served to strengthen my resolution of entrance into where Jesus wants me and where my sole purpose will be to live for God alone, for prayer, for sacrifice, to adore and praise Jesus and pray for souls. To me, each day outside here is an eternity.[/quote]

Hello,
I am new to this forum, but I have much experience with discerning a vocation to the religious life similiar to LaudemGloriae, 14 years as well, so maybe I have something to add to this topic. I am now 44 and still "in the dark" so to speak about my vocation to some degree. The difference now is that I am no longer worried about finding it and know with greater confidence that if I am faithful to prayer, God will lead me to the vocation where I will be sanctified in His own time. I have a good friend who is in her early 50's who entered the Quito Carmel after much suffering with trying to find the right community. She was a 3rd order Carmelite, but was convinced she wanted to be a benedictine and now is very content and at peace in her vocation in Carmel. She didn't know but a few words of Spanish when she entered there. I also want to mention that there is a Carmelite nun I know, Sr. Teresita, and have met, who I believe was with the St. Louis Carmelites who is now founding another house in Kansas City, MO with the support of the Bishop there. This Carmel will have the Mass according to the 1962 missal and live according to the 1990 constitutions. I believe she is open to "older" vocations.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='inperpetuity' post='1475478' date='Mar 10 2008, 10:42 PM']I also want to mention that there is a Carmelite nun I know, Sr. Teresita, and have met, who I believe was with the St. Louis Carmelites who is now founding another house in Kansas City, MO with the support of the Bishop there. This Carmel will have the Mass according to the 1962 missal and live according to the 1990 constitutions. I believe she is open to "older" vocations.[/quote]
Praised be Jesus Christ!

I was reading through this thread the other day, and noticed this update on Sr. Teresita, whom Gemma has mentioned here before. That's so neat, you have met her! I emailed the vocations office for the Diocese of Kansas City, and they informed me that the new foundation is actually not going to be in Kansas City, but that Sr. Teresita is in Ohio now. So maybe the new foundation will be there. Let's keep her in our prayers

And these Norbertine Nuns look wonderful!

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1464976' date='Feb 17 2008, 11:17 PM']So there is a 2 pg and 12 pg PDF file in the link Mother Mary Augustine mentions in her email. Very informative and wonderful sisters. When I clicked on that link this - [url="http://fp1.antelecom.net/techsrv/"]http://fp1.antelecom.net/techsrv/[/url] - appeared in the top bar - but both worked for me.[/quote]
Thanks for showing us this link, Mary! These newsletters are beautiful!

[Laudem Gloriae]

You're welcome MargaretClare! I missed you on Phatmass, glad you're back after Lent and Easter!

The Norbertine's are great, but Mother Augustine? (forgot her name!) wanted me as a donata/extern and as that wasn't for me, I thanked her for her time. I wanted to post the bulletin links she sent because there is so little on them on the web at this time and theses links give so much more info on them and their life.

[Saint Therese]

Are the Norbertines Dominican in spirituality? I've seen their sites but I wasn't sure. Do they place the same emphasis on study?

[inperpetuity]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' date='Mar 26 2008, 08:06 PM' post='1485131']
Praised be Jesus Christ!

I was reading through this thread the other day, and noticed this update on Sr. Teresita, whom Gemma has mentioned here before. That's so neat, you have met her! I emailed the vocations office for the Diocese of Kansas City, and they informed me that the new foundation is actually not going to be in Kansas City, but that Sr. Teresita is in Ohio now. So maybe the new foundation will be there. Let's keep her in our prayers


Yes, I met her in NY. She was trying to found there several years ago, but the bishop shut her down even though she had at least 3 other women with her in various stages of formation. I actually met her because she was giving her altar to the Benedictines of Mary and as I was spending a lot of time with them they asked if I could pick it up for them. I went with my father and we and another volunteer loaded it into our van and took it to their priory which was then in rural PA. Sr. Teresita was very sweet and very resigned to going to an existing Carmel as the bishop had ordered. She told me that if I ever decided to enter a Carmel that St. Louis was one of the better ones. I didn't ask her to explain that, but I sort of new what she meant. She was convinced that God would call her out again to eventually found this Carmel, so yes, let's pray for her.

[irishdancer]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1485914' date='Mar 27 2008, 04:39 PM']Are the Norbertines Dominican in spirituality? I've seen their sites but I wasn't sure. Do they place the same emphasis on study?[/quote]

The Norbertines follow the Rule of St. Augustine as the Dominicans do. My understanding is that they do not place quite the same emphasis on study as the Dominicans. It is in the Norbertine tradition to as much as possible support the monastery with work within the cloister so study fits into the prayer and work schedule. Please remember I don't know anything about Dominicans but as I'm not really into studying forever, I had some frank conversation over my concerns with the Mother Prioress. However if I enter there, Latin and Gregorian Chant classes are ahead as well as all the other stuff you can imagine. The Lord truly has a sense of humor.

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='irishdancer' post='1486822' date='Mar 28 2008, 02:48 PM']However if I enter there, Latin and Gregorian Chant classes are ahead as well as all the other stuff you can imagine. The Lord truly has a sense of humor.[/quote]

In my experience if you are inclined toward music at all, you won't have a problem with the chant....only reading the pneums gets a little complex....but not much...plus singing in choir with others, I think often the voice just "goes the right way" if you know what I mean....you'll probably get lots of practice before you have to sing solo.

Also as far as Latin is concerned...Liturgical Latin has a fairly limited vocabulary, not too hard to learn...well, I didn't think so anyway.....and (I don't know if you have any experience with Latin)...you might be surprised at how similar some words are to English....if you have a good vocabulary I'd be willing to bet you won't find Latin all that hard...except for maybe the declentions...but that's about grammar..understanding what you are singing, I think, will come easier....at least it did for me.

Pax

(edited for typo)

Edited March 28, 2008 by gloriagurl

[irishdancer]

For those interested in Norbertine History/Spirituality I thought the following article might be enjoyable.[url="http://web.ebscohost.com/ehost/pdf?vid=2&hid=115&sid=ceef51c5-74ec-4ef3-9f9d-2ed9a08ad78a%40sessionmgr103"]Norbertine Time[/url]