Norbertine Nuns Of Tehachapi, Ca

[Alycin]

[quote name='praying4carmel' post='1466835' date='Feb 21 2008, 05:27 PM']God Bless those Sisters! Handling BEES! Since I am scared to death of Bees, I probably won't head that way..But WOW I am impressed!
They look lovely, what a beautiful place. Thank you for sharing this.[/quote]

That's what I thought when I saw it, too! Handling bees with no GLOVS?!! Ahh!

[johnnydigit]

i don't know about the nuns, but i know the Norbertine brothers here at St. Michael's Abbey in Silverado are some of the most solid religious around. very loyal and orthodox. they scoop up all the male vocations around here hands down.

[Laudem Gloriae]

Well, in all respect, the age issue CAN'T NOT be talked to death! Just as any "over the age limit man or woman" who is told "no" if this issue has been talked to death. It shouldn't have numerous threads about it but it definitely shouldn't be treated as a trivial topic and in a sense be told to smell of elderberries it up, forget your vocation or accept a vocation like an extern/donata when that is NOT your call just because of it! As long as God is calling women and men later in life to make a total gift of themselves to love, adore and serve Him in the cloister and priesthood, that still will be an important factor and something that needs to be discussed! I am glad I will not stand before God after death and have to explain to Him why I turned away the people He Himself said "Come follow me" to.

No order, novice mistress, Prioress/Abbess or such has the right to play God and tell God Himself who He can or cannot call and then put age restraints on Him. I have written to countless prioresses/abbesses of some orders here in the US but mostly in the UK, Ireland and Australia and they are very humble and wise in saying the same thing. There are many saints and blesseds that were older when they entered religious life - without and without grown kids. Obviously, an order can't accept an older with one or multiple medical problems and definitely not mental problems, but barring that their shouldn't be this problem.

Sure, just as younger vocations enter stay awhile and leave, there are older ones who stay awhile and leave but there are also many who stay, persevered and for all we know, are saints in the eyes of God. Thank God there are many good traditional various orders that will take older women (sorry, don't know about the men's orders!) in the US and I will be visiting a few in the next few weeks, but I believe I am called to Carmel.

And the fraternal, community life is VERY important to Carmel, not just Dominicans or other groups. I have found this out in discerning with various Carmels in the US, UK and Ireland. Also it is an important aspect that is mentioned in St. Teresa of Avila's writings as well. All of these prioresses have asked me and other women I know - or politely grilled me! - with many questions to find out how they think we would do regarding community life, as most Carmels follow St. Teresa's request to have 2 recreation periods a day and their love, closeness of fellow sister just doesn't end at the sound of the recreation bell that calls them to prayer, work, etc.

And no matter what the term is used to call a sister as "someone outside the cloister" is still not the vocation for me. Whether it is "donata" or "extern" that is not where Our Lord wants me, nor to what I feel called to. Just as I know 100% that I am not called to an active order or a relaxed or less traditional order. By her letter, you can tell she is referring to some type of sister that is NOT like the others. And that is a great call for some - as the PCCs call it "a vocation within a vocation", but not for myself nor other women over this age limit who hears and knows that God wants them as His cloistered spouse.

Well, I could write more but won't but I can't promise anyone this age thing won't come out of me now and then. If anyone wants any good, traditional orders that take and/or seriously consider older vocations, they can contact me on the forum or privately. Thanks.

[jkaands]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1467682' date='Feb 23 2008, 11:56 AM']Well, I could write more but won't but I can't promise anyone this age thing won't come out of me now and then. If anyone wants any good, traditional orders that take and/or seriously consider older vocations, they can contact me on the forum or privately. Thanks.[/quote]

If you review Nunsense's posts, you'll find that she thoroughly scoured the OCD's in this country and found several 'observant' ones --for want of a better word--that would consider her. She was 54. She was clothed in January at the Wolverhampton Carmel in England, very trad. She's Sr. Annie Theresa now.

If you want to email the monastery for her list, they're at:

wolvercarm2@tiscali.co.ukd. I am sure that they would be happy for her to communicate with you. They sound like they have a terrific prioress. Hove you considered them?

I found Nunsense' (Sr. Annie's) thread--she mentioned the OCD in Colorado but didn't mention which one--there's a sedevacantist one in Colo Springs--and one in Mobile AL with 4 elderly nuns--and Seattle, which has a modified habit.

She may have had others, but by that time was thinking about Wolverhampton.

MargaretClare is the reigning expert on Carmels and may have other leads. There are a number of trad ones that aren't online, for example, but may consider older vocations.

There is no arguing with them about whether they will or won't consider you. It may be personal--that you wouldn't mix with their particular group. They may be using age as an excuse. For my part, I love and get along very well with people older than me and would find no difficulty with enter a community with mainly older nuns--but in that case, stability is a problem. What would happen if the Carmel had to close--it could be very tough. Still...

I know that you are favoring the OCD's now and that you want trad. But there is still the Redemptoristine nuns in Esopus, NY, where Sister Hildegard Magdalene was professed in her 60's. She has a great blog:

[url="http://monasticmusingsossr.blogspot.com"]http://monasticmusingsossr.blogspot.com[/url]

They need vocations. They do wear a modified habit but Sr. HM wears a veil, and they have kept the lovely redemptorist red.

[Laudem Gloriae]

jkaands - thank you for your wonderful reply. I am a friend of Sr. Teresa of Jesus (nunsense) and have been corresponding with Wolverhampton for awhile regarding entrance etc. And Margaret Clare is also a friend of mine we met each other thru Sr. Teresa just before she entered Wolverhampton.

I have been discerning and searching every possible Carmel and other orders/monasteries for 14 yrs so I know alot about the US, UK and Irish Carmels. There is a 1990 wonderful traditional Carmel that is not online, with no website and I hope to visit them in March or April - they are the Carmelites of Springfield, MO and I have contacted the Carmelites in Kensington, CA. The only Carmelites I have not contacted are the ones with the modified or no habits.

Yes I favor the OCDs (and I am traditional and can't change that if I tried, it would take an act of God!) but also the PCCs (as I have posted 2 threads on them) as I have visited the Cleveland monastery twice and have been writing for years. I have also contacted a few Benedictines - all traditional.

I am sure Sister Hildegard Magdalene of the Redemptoristine nuns in Esopus, NY, is a wonderful nun as her order is, but they are just not for me - and not just the modified habit. When you're called to a certain order, charism, life you know it and something different or less just won't cut it - unless God changes His mind! I was a Lay Carmelite a while ago and though that is a great life and secular order for a person called to be single or married in the world, it just wasn't enough in all ways for me.

And although I am a nurse, none of the nursing orders are for me either. I know I am not an active order vocation. I am 48, have 2 grown and independent children and a great family and friends and I don't want to give up all this to enter an order that does things either by half measures or even just gives 98% or has modified anything - from habits, rule, constitutions or is lax in some way but want the real, radical total gift of self and give all this and more to God for a real order - whether PCC or Carmel - one that St. Clare or St. Teresa of Avila would be proud of and a monastery that looks like their foundress saint was alive and walking the halls there!

I had contacted a Carmel out west that looked great by website and of course they said no to age and once married with kids, but still send me material numerous times during the year - feast days, etc. - and also a printed little booklet of "happenings" many times a year. Now they profess being cloistered and enclosure but these booklets show them mingling with the public and the public in their enclosure! This wasn't for a new monastery before enclosure was sealed by the bishop or something but goings on for fund raisers, etc. and it's not the externs either. So many profess enclosure and then seem to break it willy nilly.

Over the 14 yrs, I have come across way too many monasteries of different orders with these problems and others like the pizza night, movie night (not even religious ones!), the sisters reading secular novels, surf the net and listening to secular music (terrible carp like rap and rock?!). Is this a religious order or a really bad college sorority?! My daughter had seen some of these and said "Mom this is what I and my friends do in college - so either my friends and I are either nuns and didn't know or these so-called nuns are wacked out sorority girls!"

Fr. John Corapi mentioned something like that in a talk I have on CD once that when he was looking for an order, he came across one of these "sorority" types and he said something like "Why would I enter an order that has and do all the things I can do and have done in the world now?!"

Any for anyone wondering, my parents and kids support me and understand my vocation and call. God has done marvelous things with me and to my soul, heart and mind in these 14 yrs when He called me again (yes, missed my call in my teenage/younger years) in preparation for my call and entrance into a monastery. Won't bore any more with all this but I have been at this for 14 yrs thru so many orders I have lost count and countless monasteries within each order, I could write a book on it all! Hey, maybe I should! lol!

[By His Grace Alone]

Just a little correction....Nunsense isn't known as Sr. Annie Theresa, her new name is Sr. Teresa of Jesus...


[quote name='jkaands' post='1467743' date='Feb 23 2008, 04:25 PM']If you review Nunsense's posts, you'll find that she thoroughly scoured the OCD's in this country and found several 'observant' ones --for want of a better word--that would consider her. She was 54. She was clothed in January at the Wolverhampton Carmel in England, very trad. She's Sr. Annie Theresa now.

If you want to email the monastery for her list, they're at:

wolvercarm2@tiscali.co.ukd. I am sure that they would be happy for her to communicate with you. They sound like they have a terrific prioress. Hove you considered them?

I found Nunsense' (Sr. Annie's) thread--she mentioned the OCD in Colorado but didn't mention which one--there's a sedevacantist one in Colo Springs--and one in Mobile AL with 4 elderly nuns--and Seattle, which has a modified habit.

She may have had others, but by that time was thinking about Wolverhampton.

MargaretClare is the reigning expert on Carmels and may have other leads. There are a number of trad ones that aren't online, for example, but may consider older vocations.

There is no arguing with them about whether they will or won't consider you. It may be personal--that you wouldn't mix with their particular group. They may be using age as an excuse. For my part, I love and get along very well with people older than me and would find no difficulty with enter a community with mainly older nuns--but in that case, stability is a problem. What would happen if the Carmel had to close--it could be very tough. Still...

I know that you are favoring the OCD's now and that you want trad. But there is still the Redemptoristine nuns in Esopus, NY, where Sister Hildegard Magdalene was professed in her 60's. She has a great blog:

[url="http://monasticmusingsossr.blogspot.com"]http://monasticmusingsossr.blogspot.com[/url]

They need vocations. They do wear a modified habit but Sr. HM wears a veil, and they have kept the lovely redemptorist red.[/quote]

[jkaands]

[quote name='By His Grace Alone' post='1467850' date='Feb 23 2008, 05:18 PM']Just a little correction....Nunsense isn't known as Sr. Annie Theresa, her new name is Sr. Teresa of Jesus...[/quote]

Correct!

Sorry!

[jkaands]

[quote name='By His Grace Alone' post='1467850' date='Feb 23 2008, 05:18 PM']Just a little correction....Nunsense isn't known as Sr. Annie Theresa, her new name is Sr. Teresa of Jesus...[/quote]

The Carmelite monastery in Colorado in communion with Rome is in Littleton and follows the 1990 constitutions. It has only a phone number. Seattle wears a modified habit, has 11 members as of 2004, w/ an age range of 38-104.

[jkaands]

Just a reminder of the following publication by CARA, Center for Research in the Apostolate, based at Georgetown university:

[u]Emerging Communities of Consecrated
Life 2006 [/u]is a directory of 165 religious
communities and lay movements that
have organized in the United States since
Vatican II and that are still in existence.

...available thru their website,

[url="http://cara.georgetown.edu"]http://cara.georgetown.edu[/url]

[jkaands]

[i][quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1467849' date='Feb 23 2008, 05:15 PM'](excerpts):

I have been discerning and searching every possible Carmel and other orders/monasteries for 14 yrs so I know alot about the US, UK and Irish Carmels. There is a 1990 wonderful traditional Carmel that is not online, with no website and I hope to visit them in March or April - they are the Carmelites of Springfield, MO and I have contacted
And although I am a nurse, none of the nursing orders are for me either.

....and countless monasteries within each order, I could write a book on it all! Hey, maybe I should! lol![/quote][/i]

Thanks for the long reply.

Don't discount that book--especially if you don't enter!

Here's a link on Kensington, CA (for the forum--you've prob seen it)

[url="http://www.catholicvoiceoakland.org/Archives/Archive011005.html"]http://www.catholicvoiceoakland.org/Archiv...hive011005.html[/url]

Nice community, 5 elderly nuns, with an infusion of a Philippine nun in her 50's--sounds like you'd be the "baby"!

Willy-nilly, they need more exposure. Maybe a page at Institute for Religious Life's one -page -per -order website w/ an email/ address/phone. [i]Some[/i]thing!

The monastery in Springfield MO appears to be very close to major freeways and an overpass. But you'll find out..

Not to try to improve on your search, but have you considered the Ancient Observance? The one in Wahpeton SD has a low age cut off, but the one in Coopersburg, PA says 38 with exceptions, including 'second vocation' which to me means marriage, and has other houses in Fargo ND and Superior WI. All of these 'look' fairly trad to me...

I would think that your experience in nursing would be a real plus in a cloistered community!

Keep us posted on your progress. After all, you're younger than Sr. Annie-that-was! (Teresa of Jesus).

Edited February 24, 2008 by jkaands

[DameAgnes]

Laudem, I truly wish you success in your upcoming monastic explorations and hope you find the "right" house.

Reading your posts, though, I wonder - in all due respect - if you are being completely open to the workings of the Holy Spirit. I can think of several nuns - Mother Mary Francis, PCC comes to mind immediately - who entered one order first - believe it was what they were called to - only to find that their vocation somewhere else, entirely.

What I mean is, you post passionately about what you "know" you are called to, and there seems to be a very narrow means of answering that call. You wrote: [i]I don't want to give up all this to enter an order that does things either by half measures or even just gives 98% or has modified anything - from habits, rule, constitutions or is lax in some way but want the real, radical total gift of self and give all this and more to God for a real order - whether PCC or Carmel - one that St. Clare or St. Teresa of Avila would be proud of and a monastery that looks like their foundress saint was alive and walking the halls there! [/i]

But there is a very telling word there, "I don't want...I want..." What does GOD want? You write of more relaxed, or "modified" orders - even those living at what you'd call "98%" - in a (perhaps unintentional) tone that suggests they are lesser, or less-than-pleasing to God. Can you know that? And isn't that just a bit insulting to these fine women who have dedicated their lives to prayer in a manner they believe is guided (as you believe you are) by the same Holy Spirit? Their sacrifice is "radical," too - even if the habit is not quite what one might like. (I remember Mother Angelica writing that some of her nuns did not immediately like re-establishing the traditional habit, but they took it as an obedience to their superior and trusted that it was inspired by the Holy Spirit).

All discernment is difficult as are all vocations - including the marriage vocation and the single life - but (and please know I say this in all charity) is it possible that you are giving the Holy Spirit rather too little to work with in insisting that your visionary monastery, be [i]one that St. Clare or St. Teresa of Avila would be proud of and a monastery that looks like their foundress saint was alive and walking the halls there![/i] Might it not be worth saying, "Okay, Lord...this is what I think you're calling me to, but I'm open; you show me what YOU have in mind..." and seeing where it takes you?

I think we all, very often, give God limitations on what he may work with. We say, "Your will be done, but...just this way, if you please." That's not really surrender of yourself as a gift, though is it...that's more like a treaty.

There is a line in In This House of Brede - Dame Veronica is looking for heavy penance; she has surrendered something heavy and thinks that part of that surrender demands extra difficulties, something "strict" and even "radical." Abbess Catherine asks her, "isn't the best penance to do what you are actually asked to do?"

Obedience is the rub for all of us - to subdue our will and do what we are asked to do rather than what we would prefer...and probably I am writing about myself right now...but it is the heart and soul of a vocation...to say, "if God doesn't want this then neither do I," or, conversely, "if God wants this, and I don't...well...God can have it anyway..." Difficult. The hardest part of life.

By the Way, at Stanbrook Abbey, the Benedictine Nuns would occasionally be assigned by the Abbess to read secular novels if they were works that could be considered wise and helpful - in the manner of, say Graham Greene or Evelyn Waugh. That's not being at "98%" - that's saying, "I am open to the Lord speaking to me through whatever avenue He chooses."

I wish you all the best and will pray for your intention!

[puellapaschalis]

I regret that I have nothing to add to this discussion other than the following:
DameAgnes, thank you for that post.

[jkaands]

[quote name='DameAgnes' post='1468246' date='Feb 24 2008, 04:31 PM']Laudem, I truly wish you success in your upcoming monastic explorations and hope you find the "right" house.

Reading your posts, though, I wonder - in all due respect - if you are being completely open to the workings of the Holy Spirit. I can think of several nuns - Mother Mary Francis, PCC comes to mind immediately - who entered one order first - believe it was what they were called to - only to find that their vocation somewhere else, entirely.

What I mean is, you post passionately about what you "know" you are called to, and there seems to be a very narrow means of answering that call. You wrote: [i]I don't want to give up all this to enter an order that does things either by half measures or even just gives 98% or has modified anything - from habits, rule, constitutions or is lax in some way but want the real, radical total gift of self and give all this and more to God for a real order - whether PCC or Carmel - one that St. Clare or St. Teresa of Avila would be proud of and a monastery that looks like their foundress saint was alive and walking the halls there! [/i]

But there is a very telling word there, "I don't want...I want..." What does GOD want? You write of more relaxed, or "modified" orders - even those living at what you'd call "98%" - in a (perhaps unintentional) tone that suggests they are lesser, or less-than-pleasing to God. Can you know that? And isn't that just a bit insulting to these fine women who have dedicated their lives to prayer in a manner they believe is guided (as you believe you are) by the same Holy Spirit? Their sacrifice is "radical," too - even if the habit is not quite what one might like. (I remember Mother Angelica writing that some of her nuns did not immediately like re-establishing the traditional habit, but they took it as an obedience to their superior and trusted that it was inspired by the Holy Spirit).

All discernment is difficult as are all vocations - including the marriage vocation and the single life - but (and please know I say this in all charity) is it possible that you are giving the Holy Spirit rather too little to work with in insisting that your visionary monastery, be [i]one that St. Clare or St. Teresa of Avila would be proud of and a monastery that looks like their foundress saint was alive and walking the halls there![/i] Might it not be worth saying, "Okay, Lord...this is what I think you're calling me to, but I'm open; you show me what YOU have in mind..." and seeing where it takes you?

I think we all, very often, give God limitations on what he may work with. We say, "Your will be done, but...just this way, if you please." That's not really surrender of yourself as a gift, though is it...that's more like a treaty.

There is a line in In This House of Brede - Dame Veronica is looking for heavy penance; she has surrendered something heavy and thinks that part of that surrender demands extra difficulties, something "strict" and even "radical." Abbess Catherine asks her, "isn't the best penance to do what you are actually asked to do?"

Obedience is the rub for all of us - to subdue our will and do what we are asked to do rather than what we would prefer...and probably I am writing about myself right now...but it is the heart and soul of a vocation...to say, "if God doesn't want this then neither do I," or, conversely, "if God wants this, and I don't...well...God can have it anyway..." Difficult. The hardest part of life.

By the Way, at Stanbrook Abbey, the Benedictine Nuns would occasionally be assigned by the Abbess to read secular novels if they were works that could be considered wise and helpful - in the manner of, say Graham Greene or Evelyn Waugh. That's not being at "98%" - that's saying, "I am open to the Lord speaking to me through whatever avenue He chooses."

I wish you all the best and will pray for your intention![/quote]

Dame A, I think that you are right on in your assessment.

I will say, tho', that nunsense also did prefer a trad carmel with a full habit--I think that she spoke of this preference, and managed to find it. I think that it is not unreasonable to have a preference, even tho' it might not work out. Then one can re-think the issues involved and possibly arrive at other ideas.

[irishdancer]

Hi!! irishdancer here. i'm new to phatmass although I've been lurking for a while. Thank you for posting about the Norbertine Nuns. I got the phone number from here and called. They do call back; hoping to visit in July. Pax to all!!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='DameAgnes' post='1468246' date='Feb 24 2008, 06:31 PM']There is a line in In This House of Brede - Dame Veronica is looking for heavy penance; she has surrendered something heavy and thinks that part of that surrender demands extra difficulties, something "strict" and even "radical." Abbess Catherine asks her, "isn't the best penance to do what you are actually asked to do?"[/quote]
Aye and theres the eternal rub: " thy will, not my will".
You warm my heart with one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite books!

Here is one for you:
Indeed, the ethic of inclusion in the gospels could be stated: You can come as you are and leave behind what you can, but you may not stay as you were or do as you will.

–The Rt. Rev. Francis Gray