'licence To Smoke' Proposed

[Lounge Daddy]

This is happening in the UK. How long until this spreads to the United States, in areas where our nanny state is gracious enough to allow smoking at all?

And after smoking, anything could be deemed unhealthy and then require a license; including having children. And I really see it coming. The problem is, the majority of people seems to demand this garbage.







[font="Century Gothic"]
There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.

"Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapon,"
Los Angeles Times, Sept. 9, 1962, G2 [/font]

[Lounge Daddy]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7247470.stm"]From the BBC[/url]:

[quote]'£10 licence to smoke' proposed
Smoker
Smokers would have to get a licence to light up under the plan
Smokers could be forced to pay £10 for a permit to buy tobacco if a government health advisory body gets its way.

No one would be able to buy cigarettes without the permit, under the idea proposed by Health England.

Its chairman, Professor Julian Le Grand, told BBC Radio 5 Live the scheme would make a big difference to the number of people giving up smoking.

But smokers' rights group Forest described the idea as "outrageous", given how much tax smokers already pay.

Professor Le Grand, a former adviser to ex-PM Tony Blair, said cash raised by the proposed scheme would go to the NHS.

He said it was the inconvenience of getting a permit - as much as the cost - that would deter people from persisting with the smoking habit.

"You've got to get a form, a complex form - the government's good at complex forms; you have got to get a photograph.

"It's a little bit of a problem to actually do it, so you have got to make a conscious decision every year to opt in to being a smoker."

'Extra bureaucracy'

He added: "70% of smokers actually want to stop smoking.

"So if you just make it that little bit more difficult for them to actually re-start or even to start in the first place, yes I think it will make a big difference."

But Forest said it would be "an extra form of taxation, while tobacco taxation is already at record levels".

Forest spokesman Simon Clark said that when the cost of administration, extra bureaucracy and enforcement are taken into account, "the mind boggles".

He added that the people most affected by the proposals would be "the elderly and people on low incomes".

Mr Clark added: "The senior government advisor putting this idea forward is not only adding to the red tape and bureaucracy we already have in this country.

"He is openly bragging that he wants to make the form as complex as possible to fill in."

A department of health spokeswoman did not rule out such a scheme as part of the next wave of tobacco regulation.

She said: "We will be consulting later this year on the next steps on tobacco control.

"Ministers are seeking input from a whole range of stakeholders."[/quote]

[Excelsior1027]

Sometimes I just don't understand the people in this country. In my Modern World Studies class I've been studying the Cold War and the events that took place during it, and how China became communist...we used to try all we could to stop communism and socialism from spreading. Now it seems like every day there's another piece of news that our own nation and our democratic allies are moving closer and closer to it. Doesn't anyone [i]notice[/i] this?

[jeffpugh]

Gimmie a break. I don't care about the licence, but it's not going to stop us from having children. if it does we go protest. and if your free america is anything but democratic, it shouldn't happen as long as the people bear arms

There's my cynicism of the day, brought to you by a mad teen who just happens to be sick of hearing conspiracy theories.

Oh, and since when does independent "America" follow after those stuffy tea drinking Britts? I thought you were free of em after the big tea party.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Excelsior1027' post='1463720' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:06 PM']Sometimes I just don't understand the people in this country. In my Modern World Studies class I've been studying the Cold War and the events that took place during it, and how China became communist...we used to try all we could to stop communism and socialism from spreading. Now it seems like every day there's another piece of news that our own nation and our democratic allies are moving closer and closer to it. Doesn't anyone [i]notice[/i] this?[/quote]

I think it's because we don't have a major country that we are pointing to and saying "we don't want to be like them," like we did during the Cold War.

And alas, most people are not even aware of what it happening. I see why Jesus always called us sheep.

[Excelsior1027]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1463722' date='Feb 15 2008, 08:08 PM']Gimmie a break. I don't care about the licence, but it's not going to stop us from having children. if it does we go protest. and if your free america is anything but democratic, it shouldn't happen as long as the people bear arms

There's my cynicism of the day, brought to you by a mad teen who just happens to be sick of hearing conspiracy theories.

Oh, and since when does independent "America" follow after those stuffy tea drinking Britts? I thought you were free of em after the big tea party.[/quote]
There's been a proposed law in one of the states (unfortunately, I can't remember which one...I wanna say Louisiana or Alabama, but I really can't be sure) that would make it so that, when you go to a restaurant, you could not eat food deemed to be junk food or unhealthy if you are overweight or obese. There would be scales to weigh you. I'm pretty sure the article said it most likely would not get passed into law (which is good), but just the fact that these kinds of things are being suggested irks me. I'm not saying there are conspiracies, I'm just saying it's making me pray harder and harder for my country and its future.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Excelsior1027

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Excelsior1027' post='1463746' date='Feb 15 2008, 08:28 PM']There's been a proposed law in one of the states (unfortunately, I can't remember which one...I wanna say Louisiana or Alabama, but I really can't be sure) that would make it so that, when you go to a restaurant, you could not eat food deemed to be junk food or unhealthy if you are overweight or obese. There would be scales to weigh you. I'm pretty sure the article said it most likely would not get passed into law (which is good), but just the fact that these kinds of things are being suggested irks me. I'm not saying there are conspiracies, I'm just saying it's making me pray harder and harder for my country and its future.[/quote]

I think the article said that obese people were going to be banned from restaurants. That's illogical, really. But yeah, I agree that we need to keep our eye out for things like THAT. Indeed, pray for our countries and other people's too.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1463722' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:08 PM']Gimmie a break. I don't care about the licence, but it's not going to stop us from having children. if it does we go protest. and if your free america is anything but democratic, it shouldn't happen as long as the people bear arms

There's my cynicism of the day, brought to you by a mad teen who just happens to be sick of hearing conspiracy theories.[/quote]

It's not conspiracy theories. It's current events.

In the UK:
[url="http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/wales-news/tm_headline=big-puffer-is-watching&method=full&objectid=19795262&siteid=50082-name_page.html"][b]Smokers are being targeted by CCTV cameras. Government is prepared to take court action against anyone who refuses to stump up the £75 on-the-spot fines that have already been introduced.[/b][/url]
[url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=459574&in_page_id=1770"][b]Smokers told to quit or surgery will be refused[/b][/url]

In the United States:
[url="http://www.ourmidland.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=18289705&BRD=2289&PAG=461&dept_id=578054&rfi=8"][b]Government "allows" Michigan man to smoke in his own home[/b][/url]
[url="http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/08/huckabee-says-h.html"][b]Republican Presidential candidate wants a national smoking ban[/b][/url]
(Yes, that's a Republican--former party for a smaller government--who is calling for a national ban.)
[url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/07/wvan07.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/12/07/ixworld.html"][b]New York mayor's tobacco stormtroopers raid Times Square building three times. The reason: ashtrays[/b][/url]


As Excelsior1027 mentioned, the government is also working on bans, taxes, and licensing for food products.

You mentioned that you are a teen, so you won't remember that the government created quite a controversy when they moved to push seatbelt laws in the name of public safety. The opponents of such measures warned that giving the government the power to regulate behavior in the name of public safety would not end with seatbelt laws.

The opponents were poo-pooed as over reacting. But then came the smoking restrictions. And now come the food restrictions. What next? The government will not stop after telling you exactly what to eat and what not to eat.


[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1463722' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:08 PM']Oh, and since when does independent "America" follow after those stuffy tea drinking Britts? I thought you were free of em after the big tea party.[/quote]
Sadly, things change. Our Founding Fathers originally set up a Republic, also; because they believed that a democracy was dangerous. But that's going going gone, baby. The U.S. used to be free of a lot of things.

As the saying goes, the greatest societies existed in a 200-year cycle. The process starts with a society in a state of bondage, leads through spiritual faith and courage to liberty and abundance, then selfishness, complacency and apathy to dependency, finally returning to bondage.

I would say without a doubt that we are in the apathy to dependency stage.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Lounge Daddy

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1463786' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:20 PM']...
As the saying goes, the greatest societies existed in a 200-year cycle. The process starts with a society in a state of bondage, leads through spiritual faith and courage to liberty and abundance, then selfishness, complacency and apathy to dependency, finally returning to bondage.

I would say without a doubt that we are in the apathy to dependency stage.[/quote]
Oooh yeah... we're in trouble.

Don't see the problem with the seatbelt thing though... people actually died cause they didn't "feel" like putting them on.

All that aside, our hedonistic overcapitalistic society needs a wakeup call. People don't find themselves in the proverbial chains when they realise it.

[Justin86]

Fretting over a licence to smoke seems rather frivolous when Huckabee wants to outlaw it nationwide.


[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1463797' date='Feb 16 2008, 12:33 PM']Don't see the problem with the seatbelt thing though... people actually died cause they didn't "feel" like putting them on.[/quote]
I've also heard of people dying [i]because[/i] they wore a seatbelt. I'm not saying that the law should be repealed, but just because you're wearing a seatbelt does not mean you're safer in a car crash.

[Excelsior1027]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1463797' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:33 PM']Don't see the problem with the seatbelt thing though... people actually died cause they didn't "feel" like putting them on.[/quote]
It's true, wearing your seatbelt gives you a much better chance of surviving a car crash or having less serious injuries; but there are some things the government shouldn't force us to do. By all means, it's good that they tell us we should wear seatbelts, and we should, but when the government makes a law about it, then they are overstepping their boundaries. Has the law saved more lives? Perhaps; but it's also taken away some of our freedom. Lounge Daddy was right, too; me being only a teenager as well, I didn't know about the fuss over the seatbelt law. I didn't realize it until he mentioned it; and that's what, I think, is the problem, that many people don't realize their freedoms are being taken away. They're too dependent on the government to take care of them and tell them what to do.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Excelsior1027

[jeffpugh]

If problem is dependency, then we need to get the word out that people should be allowed to think for themselves (hehe, sounds like teenagers sometimes, eh? :-P). I'm still skeptical in some areas, but I can see a stupid idea when one comes along... ie the restaurant thing.

[Archaeology cat]

I can't say I like the idea of having a license to smoke (and don't think it's really necessary since you can't smoke in enclosed public areas anyway). Seems a bit silly. Oh, and from what I understand, it isn't that the NHS completely refuses surgery for smokers, it's that they won't do surgery (if it's a surgery that can be put off for a bit) until the person has tried to stop smoking 1 month (I may be wrong on the time frame there). The reason for this is because of an increased number of complications and longer recovery times for smokers. If the person doesn't want to wait, it is entirely possible to go to a private surgeon. Though I know of doctors in the US that won't do certain surgeries until the patient has lost weight, or stopped smoking, or something else, because the surgery wouldn't go as well otherwise. So I don't think it's just a socialised medicine thing, necessarily.

[XIX]

There isn't enough info here for me to make a decision.

How easy is it to get a license to smoke? Is it simply roughly as getting a drivers license? Do you have to jump through hoops to get it? Is it just something to prove that you are of legal age to smoke in UK?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='XIX' post='1464131' date='Feb 16 2008, 03:16 PM']Is it just something to prove that you are of legal age to smoke in UK?[/quote]

Good point - that may be the purpose behind it. I'd have to do some checking.