Vagina Monologues. Warning-adult Discussion

[rachael]

I haven't really defended anything yet. You just made a blatantly silly statement without really having known anything of the subject matter. Next time you such a thing, you should actually do some more in-depth research. Don't speak of things you know little about.

Edited February 17, 2008 by rachael

[Laudate_Dominum]

I provided two examples of vagina monologues that support my statement and referenced multiple feminist sources that agree with my "silly" statement. So far you have merely ignored my points and employed empty rhetorical tactics to make it seem as though you have somehow undermined my assessment.
The only thing you have achieved in my eyes is the undermining of your own credibility on this subject.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='rachael' post='1463676' date='Feb 15 2008, 07:01 PM']What are your thoughts?

Opinions?

I would really like to know what other people know of it.

I saw them yesterday and I will post my opinion of them after a bit.[/quote]

I saw the Monologues a few years ago at a campus performance. While I believe that the Vagina Monologues aren't without their merit, I believe that they cross "the line" more than I would like. I will say, though, that they do a great job discussing violence toward women.

On the other hand, I fear that the kind of sexual independence that they also advocate perpetuates violence toward women. To quote Pope Paul VI:

[quote name='Pope Paul VI in Humanae Vitae']Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.[/quote]

[XIX]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1464833' date='Feb 17 2008, 06:39 PM']1. I can't justify subjecting myself to such trashy "entertainment."
2. I've seen enough to know that it is twisted and I'm certainly not going to subject myself to more tacky filth just to earn the right to discuss it with you.
3. It is boring anyway.
4. I don't need to see the whole thing to speak about it. There are plenty of things that I have not seen at all but I know they are messed up. I've never seen Brokeback Mountain but I still feel justified in saying that it is dumb. I can safely say that Cold Mountain is a messed up movie because of the graphic sex scenes. It might be an otherwise good movie that was ruined by smut but it is still not something I could not subject myself to without sinning. In fact I regret watching any of the 'V' monologues because it was totally unnecessary; I could have merely read about it and realized that it is filth that should not be pushed on young people in schools around the country. Now why exactly are you defending this show?[/quote]
Fair enough, but this is a very far cry from saying "lesbian recruitment propaganda."

That was the only thing that she called "ridiculous," and I don't see anything in your examples that convinces me that they are actually trying to recruit lesbians.

[XIX]

[quote name='rachael' post='1464840' date='Feb 17 2008, 06:45 PM']I haven't really defended anything yet. You just made a blatantly silly statement without really having known anything of the subject matter. Next time you such a thing, you should actually do some more in-depth research. Don't speak of things you know little about. [/quote]
Let's be fair, he did research the matter. He didn't actually see the whole thing, but he did what I would call some pretty good research.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='XIX' post='1464872' date='Feb 17 2008, 08:01 PM']Fair enough, but this is a very far cry from saying "lesbian recruitment propaganda."

That was the only thing that she called "ridiculous," and I don't see anything in your examples that convinces me that they are actually trying to recruit lesbians.[/quote]
Ok, I'll quote myself.

[quote]Oh? I watched The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could on youtube for research purposes. Apparently the word "coochie" means vagina and "snorcher" refers to lesbian oral sex. The original skit involved the lesbian molestation of a 13 year old girl by an adult woman and the skit presents this event as something positive and even "healing."
Then there is the monologue called The Woman Who Loved to Make Vaginas Happy about a lesbian dominatrix who loves "giving women pleasure" which culminates in the "triple orgasm" performance.

I'm not the only one who thinks so either. The view of such feminists as Betty Dodson and Wendy McElroy is that the monologues represent "a blast of hatred at men and heterosexuality." (See salon.com interview; zetetics.com interview and ifeminists.net)

Want to know what is ridiculous? - the "V" monologues. I hope this show isn't your idea of appropriate entertainment.[/quote]

[i]The Woman Who Loved To Make Vaginas Happy[/i] and [i]The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could[/i] provide obvious support for my statement. I don't claim that it applies to every monologue equally but it was an informal statement anyway. I didn't realize that the "Vagina Monologues" had so many zealous apologists on these boards. Just a tad disturbing in my opinion.

Unfortunately it is impossible to have a frank discussion of the pertinent material because it would involve filth that has no place on phatmass. This link provides a little taste of the problems with this show from a secular perspective. [url="http://www.cblpi.org/programs/vday/factsfallacies.cfm"]http://www.cblpi.org/programs/vday/factsfallacies.cfm[/url]
Of course from an orthodox Catholic perspective the problems are much more far reaching.

[Noel's angel]

From what I've read in this thread and the site L_D linked, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone in their right mind would advocate such utter depraved rubbish.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Btw, from what I've seen I think it is perfectly obvious that it would be a sin to watch this show knowing what it contains or to continue watching it after initial subjection. The graphic parodies and descriptions of sexual experiences in the show are essentially pornographic.

[Noel's angel]

I felt bad even reading about it on the link. It's disgraceful.

[Maggyie]

LD probably gets the "recruitment" idea from the monologue about lesbian rape. I believe in the original piece she was twelve or thirteen, but in the version used on campuses etc. it was "sanitized" and her age was boosted to the more "acceptable" fifteen or sixteen - still rape and still disgraceful. I am waiting for all the accolades for a play about a fifteen or sixteen year old boy who had a similar encounter with, oh, say, a priest and how it "empowered" him, blah blah blah. Oh no, wait, even radical feminists recognize that as foul abuse.

[cmotherofpirl]

I read the entire book and it is disgusting.
I only read it so I could discuss it with my radically liberal cousins who think it is just wonderful and empowering.
[note to Dust: we need a barfing smiley for topics like these]

[Socrates]

There was a big debate on this disgusting performance a year or two ago. Though admittedly I have not seen it, I have not heard anything to make me see any merit in a monologue of graphic and vulgar sex talk, and tales of lesbian rape.

Modern feminism is an absurd travesty.
If I were to babble on in public about my penis ad nauseum in graphic and vulgar terms, people would simply think me a boor. (Unless, perhaps, it had homosexual context, in which case it might be eligible for an NEA grant)
Yet, it seems that in contemporary feminism, women acting vulgar and slutty is seen as the height of liberation and empowerment. All-round disgusting and stupid, and does nothing to advance the dignity of women.

As for the oft-repeated argument to not knock it unless you've seen the whole thing, must we as Catholics be obliged to watch every piece of vulgar and pornographic filth in its entirerty before saying a word against it?
I think we've all heard enough about this show to know it is filthy smut. It doesn't matter how "empowering" some may find it.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Socrates

[Justin86]

I just looked up the history of the C-word, and basically it comes from prostitution in London. Now I see why the radical feminists support devulgarizing the word. They want us all to go back to having legalized streets of prostitution to liberate women.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Justin86

[rachael]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1464880' date='Feb 17 2008, 08:27 PM']Unfortunately it is impossible to have a frank discussion of the pertinent material because it would involve filth that has no place on phatmass.[/quote]
I want to know why you want to ban a controversial subject on here because as far as I know, they have always been allowed here, as long as things are kept civil.

Edited February 18, 2008 by rachael

[rachael]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1464904' date='Feb 17 2008, 09:24 PM']I read the entire book and it is disgusting.
I only read it so I could discuss it with my radically liberal cousins who think it is just wonderful and empowering.[/quote]
I respect your opinion on the subject then. Thanks, Cmom.