Being Sent To Hell?

[dairygirl4u2c]

I was wondering all of your opinions on something. Do you all think that God sends people to hell or do you think he allows people to be in hell out of their own free will?

It seems that God would forgive us our sins, all we would have to do is acknowledge it and then stop sinning or else we are really in hell. But even if we do sin and are in hell, we are still forgiven.

I am asking because a lot of ultraconservative Catholics would say God sends us to hell, while more liberal Catholics say we put ourselves there in the strict sense of the word. (versus if God did send us to hell, it was a direct result of our faults)

I am curious to see if any Catholics disagree on this since I've heard many different takes by them. I'd also like to hear once and for all Catholics say we only forgiven our sins... *if* etc. etc.

So what do ya'll think?

Edited February 16, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c

[mulls]

interesting question

[Dave]

God sends NO ONE to hell. We send OURSELVES there. That is the Church's teaching. All God does is ratify our decision to go there should we choose to do so. If you say that God actually sends people to hell, you'd also have to say that he causes people to commit sin just so he can send them to hell, and we know that's a load of hooey.

[Circle_Master]

I agree that people go to hell based on their own responsibility and failure. However, to throw in my lovely theological twist, no one is able to escape from the mastery of sin and Satan without God intervening so theoretically everyone would go to hell if God didn't love us first.

[M.SIGGA]

I agree that people go to hell based on their own responsibility and failure.  However, to throw in my lovely theological twist, no one is able to escape from the mastery of sin and Satan without God intervening so theoretically everyone would go to hell if God didn't love us first.

oy sounds good! by His stripes we are healed and God so loved the world...

I am asking because a lot of ultraconservative Catholics would say God sends us to hell, while more liberal Catholics say we put ourselves there in the strict sense of the word.

DairyG, I think you got it backwards, and I think that goes for liberal and progressive Christians as a whole, not just those L/P Catholics.

[Ash Wednesday]

God does not "send" people unjustly and unfairly to hell, and I'm not a "liberal" Catholic. God judges absolutely justly and perfectly. I think if a soul goes to hell, they know fully well that it's what they have chosen and what they deserve.

We as Catholics believe that if a soul has committed a mortal sin and dies without repenting of it, they have rejected or despaired in God, and have chosen to live out eternity in hell -- the absense of God. Nobody commits a mortal sin "by mistake" -- it's when a grave deed is done with full knowledge and complete consent. They choose to turn their backs on God. In a sense God sends people to the destination they have chosen, for God cannot judge wrong.

Somebody mentioned that C.S. Lewis once described the doors of hell being locked from the inside with regards to its eternal nature. I think people that go to hell hate and despair in God even more once they are there.

*shudders*

So, um, how about that A-Rod joining the Yankees, eh...

Edited February 17, 2004 by Ash Wednesday

[Laudate_Dominum]

Yes. St. Catherine of Genoa was far from a liberal, and she had a deep understanding of these mysteries based on mystical illumination. She says that when a soul approaches the judgement seat of God, it knows inside that it is either damned or saved because of it's own will.

What cannot be denied (because it's the clear teaching of Scripture and the definitive teaching of the Church), is that God loves everyone and desires that everyone should be saved.

But the gift of Heaven, which is perfect union in love with God, must be ratified by the will. In other words God does not force us to love Him. This goes against the very nature of love which God IS. The fact of hell proclaims the greatness of God's creative power. That He has created creature with such efficacy, such a capacity to participate in Eternal Love. This capacity, if it is in fact real, implies the opposite- the true, free power to reject God's love. It's truly insanity, but that's what sin is, it's foolishness and absurdity, it's negation and privation.

This is the problem with bastard doctrines such as double-predestination. The calvinists and others (such as muslims) fall into this trap thinking that they are doing God a favor. They think that by denying our free will they are ensuring God's sovreign power. But the fact is it deminishes it because it says that God does not have the power to create creatures with free will. This would also go against the nature of love. We would not be able to truly participate in the life of God if we did not have free will. The fact that God has created creatures with free will shows the depths of His might and power the most. But as I said before, this most sublime endowment also suggests the power to eternally choose against God, like the devil and his angels. Although we exist in a temporal order and our choice of the will and self-determination is linked with history, and Christ is the center of history.

Anyway, I've made my point for the most part.

[Katholish]

Exactly, a proper understanding of Free Will is absolutely essential to the Faith. If it is said that God makes the determination who is damned (as the Calvanist doctrine of Predestination does say) then an attribute of the Divine Nature is being denied. God's goodness precludes the possibility of him antecedently willing the damnation of some. It is true that we could not go to Hell if God did not will it, but this will is consequent will, and is directed, not at the object considered in and of itself (under which consideration He willis our salvation), but is directed toward an object considered in its circumstances.

The Catholic Doctrine of Reprobation is summarized as the eternal act of the Divine Will by which God resolves to exclude from His eternal Glory all those who persistantly and gravely resist His Grace. So in other words, God wills it if it is our own choice.

[phatcatholic]

Exactly, a proper understanding of Free Will is absolutely essential to the Faith. If it is said that God makes the determination who is damned (as the Calvanist doctrine of Predestination does say) then an attribute of the Divine Nature is being denied. God's goodness precludes the possibility of him antecedently willing the damnation of some. It is true that we could not go to Hell if God did not will it, but this will is consequent will, and is directed, not at the object considered in and of itself (under which consideration He willis our salvation), but is directed toward an object considered in its circumstances.

The Catholic Doctrine of Reprobation is summarized as the eternal act of the Divine Will by which God resolves to exclude from His eternal Glory all those who persistantly and gravely resist His Grace. So in other words, God wills it if it is our own choice.

nice post Katholish!

WELCOME TO PHATMASS!!

pax christi,

phatcatholic

[cathgirl]

Yes. St. Catherine of Genoa was far from a liberal, and she had a deep understanding of these mysteries based on mystical illumination. She says that when a soul approaches the judgement seat of God, it knows inside that it is either damned or saved because of it's own will.

What cannot be denied (because it's the clear teaching of Scripture and the definitive teaching of the Church), is that God loves everyone and desires that everyone should be saved.

But the gift of Heaven, which is perfect union in love with God, must be ratified by the will. In other words God does not force us to love Him. This goes against the very nature of love which God IS. The fact of hell proclaims the greatness of God's creative power. That He has created creature with such efficacy, such a capacity to participate in Eternal Love. This capacity, if it is in fact real, implies the opposite- the true, free power to reject God's love. It's truly insanity, but that's what sin is, it's foolishness and absurdity, it's negation and privation.

This is the problem with bastard doctrines such as double-predestination. The calvinists and others (such as muslims) fall into this trap thinking that they are doing God a favor. They think that by denying our free will they are ensuring God's sovreign power. But the fact is it deminishes it because it says that God does not have the power to create creatures with free will. This would also go against the nature of love. We would not be able to truly participate in the life of God if we did not have free will. The fact that God has created creatures with free will shows the depths of His might and power the most. But as I said before, this most sublime endowment also suggests the power to eternally choose against God, like the devil and his angels. Although we exist in a temporal order and our choice of the will and self-determination is linked with history, and Christ is the center of history.

Anyway, I've made my point for the most part.

Exactly!!! God can't force us to love Him, if we don't, He can't force us to be in Heaven with Him, where loving Him is everything. There is nowhere but Hell that a person can go if they show no love towards God in their life.