FreeSoul Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 If there is only one model of the human family, then why are vowed religious allowed to adopt? This is a fair question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 And gay people aren't??? And there are many vowed religious who disagree w/ the church...nothing new. Yes there are many religious who are Catholic in name only. It is a pity that they don't find a church to match their beliefs, instead of trying to make the Church make theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Again, I can't dignify telling someone they're not Catholic....it's just not my place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 If there is only one model of the human family, then why are vowed religious allowed to adopt? This is a fair question. I had just written out a lengthy reply, that really boiled down to one question: Are you saying that vowed religious Catholics are allowed to adopt according to government law, or according to the Catholic Church. If it's the latter, I'm inclined to believe that there are certain specific stipulations. You are right though - a single parent family isn't the model family any more than a homosexual couple is. Although, ideal family aside, a religious wouldn't necessarily impart bad habits ( no pun intended) on the child, like an actively homosexual couple would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Again, I can't dignify telling someone they're not Catholic....it's just not my place. really? St paul says we are to point out the sins of our brothers. Pointing out error is not judgement, but being your brothers keeper. If a person defies the teachings of the Church and still claims to be Catholic there is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Of course there are conditions a vowed member has to meet...but that is determined by the congregation...not a bishop or archbishop. Although, ideal family aside, a religious wouldn't necessarily impart bad habits ( no pun intended) on the child, like an actively homosexual couple would. Again, I disagree, but we already had this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Although, ideal family aside, a religious wouldn't necessarily impart bad habits ( no pun intended) on the child, like an actively homosexual couple would. Again, I disagree, but we already had this discussion. You disagree based on NOTHING. We believe that homosexual couples impart bad habits on the child because of an actual medical study (which I absolutely refuse to provide a link for again, because you're not reading it anyway). We have medical professionals behind our beliefs. You disagree based on absolutely nothing other than your own really fallible, subjective experience. You have yet to provide one shred of evidence, either doctrinal or scientific, to support what you're saying. So why on God's green earth are we supposed to believe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Free Soul, Are you ging to answer my question or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Did they ask the kid what he thinks of contraception? Or abortion, what about abortion? Did they ask what the child thinks about chastity, or about human sexuality? Does he know the reasons for marriage, and the reasons for waiting to have sex? Does the child know about the ill effects of drugs? Or that self gratification isn't always acceptable? True, but look at this website......there are at least 3 ppl here who have ssa...are they all in favour of abortion? premarital sex? and drug use? We all have varying opinions....and its just the same for heterosexuals if not more so who have had the pleasure of having their moral code more than spelled out for them in the traditional forum, by the church. Are all these catholic straight people living up to our expectations? Should we stop them from raising children too? I don't think that's a fair assumption that all people who have same-sex attraction have skewed morals. It is the people who act on ssa that have scewed morals. There are people who have ssa and for the love of God and their fellow man they do not act on them. There morals would be sound if they were in a chaste life. Parents who are active in their ssa put a stumbling block in front of their children. It might help you if you would put some real study of Catholic teaching on the matter instead of what you "think"... many times our opinions are wrong... it does not matter what our opinion is in matters like these, it matters on what the Church teaches. Here is a good source for you: http://www.Catholic-Pages.com Please actually do some study from sources with sound morals and faith. COLAGE is a joke. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Of course there are conditions a vowed member has to meet...but that is determined by the congregation...not a bishop or archbishop. Although, ideal family aside, a religious wouldn't necessarily impart bad habits ( no pun intended) on the child, like an actively homosexual couple would. Again, I disagree, but we already had this discussion. WHAT?! It's not detemined by the congregation?! The congregation is a flock of sheep, the Bishops are our shepards. It doesn't matter if you disagree to things or not, there is something called fact. You can disagree that 3 + 3 =6, but you would be wrong. Likewise are your opions about this subject and many things about the Catholic faith as dictated from the old message board. This is NOT meant as an insult, but many of your postings that I have read go against what the Church teaches and simple facts on the subject. Please study: http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/sexuality.asp God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 God grant us all the ability to speak to and about one another with civility. Grant us the ability to not curse our parents for the bad habits we feel they have imparted on us. Grant us the knowledge that judgement passed on another person's faith in you is the kind of judgement which leads us straight into the fires of Hell, teach us the serenity of a shut mouth and an open heart. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 A vowed member would be a sister,nun, monk or priest in one of the orders. THey are ruled by congregations, abbots and abbesses, not by local ordinarys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianney Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 To be our brothers keeper is what we should do, The context in which he said that though was for our spiritual friends and partners to point out or mistakes lovingly, not on a chat forum.....lil difference... Secondly, Im sure all of us at one time have done something that defies church teaching and because we have doesnt mean all the sudden we arent cathoilcs anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 (edited) We are called to be crucified. We are called to hurt and to suffer. Homosexuality is a cross, it is one that should be accepted joyfully by all who call themselves homosexuals and Christians. Every morning I wake up and I joyously wrap my arms around the cross God has given me to bear, I carry it all day long and unlike some crosses, I don't get to put it down when I go to bed at night, it only gets heavier. I carry my cross with (believe it or not) a minimum amount of griping, because it makes me more like Christ every day. I don't expect justice, fairness, or compassion from any man who has drawn breath, or from any man who will ever draw breath. We are called to be crucified. We die and rise with Christ in Baptism. I suffer, I carry my cross. I feel pain in my body and I feel pain in my soul. I feel pain and anger when in addition to what God and His Church have given me as a means of growing in wisdom and love other people, mere mean, who like me are in constant danger of the fall, who are wrteched vile little creatures not worthy of the God they serve, just like me, try to hand me other burdens---these I will not take, I push them away. I push them away if they are the Pope speaking. I push them away if they are the CDF speaking. I push them away if they are that Holiest of institutions Phatmass speaking. I will not do it. If I become an active homosexual tomorrow, I still will not see a child who needs me and not open my heart and my home to him or her. If it is illegal, I'll do it. If it is stated infallibly the next five Pope's, I will still do it. Children are being aborted, children are being given away by their parents because they are inconvenient to them. People are standing up and saying: "Crucify me, I am willing, and I am able to love this child. This little person who someone else threw away, I want him, or I want her. I can help. I provide a roof. I can provide food. I can provide love. Give him to me. Don't leave him as another faceless little victim of our fallen world, don't let this one be another faceless, nameless little soul lost in bureaucracy." How anyone can actually say that concepts and ideas are more important than throwing one's arms around a child who needs love and loving them is beyond me. Families are not defined by blood. Families aren't defined by the genitalia of the persons who love and care for one another. Families are defined by the people you live for, you'd kill for, you'd die for---the people you do die for. It is a dying to self to parent someone. It is a crucifixion that is colored by thousannds of mortifications great and small. Parenting draws a person to God, it causes one to grow in holiness and die to self. Families are holy. Families are sacred and my family (Jon, Ashley, and whoever else we decide to bring into our lives) is as valid and as holy an enterprise as anyone else's here is. If tomorrow Jonathon and I throw our arms around one another and make love our family is still holy. We are still doing God's work, we are still being crucified. If Ashley or anyone else that we raise grows up and turns out to be a homosexual it doesn't lessen the dignity sacredity of the family we have built (anymore than the fact that I am a homosexual and my brother is a bisexual lessened the sacredity of my parents family). If a child grows up to be a homosexual they are not reduced by even the tiniest of margins in their human dignity or in their divine call. If a child grows up to be a homosexual, it does not in any way, shape, or form detract from the holy work their parents did in raising a creature who is made in the image of the living God. There are too many people raping, molesting, neglecting, killing, disowning, and giving away their children for me to sit here and say that because of acts committed in the privacy of the bedrooms of consenting adults, that people who are willing to stand up and say "I will do in this child's life the duties that his/her birth parents were un-willing to do," should be turned away. Every concept and idea we have about how a family looks should die before we let children die the slow death of the heart that is foster care and group homes. Edited August 7, 2003 by hyperdulia again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeSoul Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Are you answering my previous question, or are you saying one religion or denomination is just as good as the other, albeit, different and they don't have to agree? to be honest jas...I don't get the question.....i'm only talking about catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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