Guest SemJoe Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I'm against homosexuals adopting children for two reasons. One, the church strongly teaches agaisnt it, along with homosexuality itself. Two, it encourages a lifestyle to the children that is disordered and gravely sinful. To choose to live a homosexual lifestyle is to choose an evil and no child deserves that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Ah. I'm so happy to see the poll the way it is. I had a huge argument over this issue with my best friend (I posted about it on another thread). In short, he's mad at the Church (the Pope in particular) for not tayloring to homosexual "needs". There are a few reasons, if not already mentioned, that I believe homosexuals should not be able to adopt. The main one being that Children need to have both a motherfigure and a fatherfigure. Argue all you want about how an orphan would get more love in a homosexual family. The fact remains that one sin does not do a child better than another. It's just plain logical: If it takes a man and a woman to bring a child IN to the world, then it requires a man and a woman to bring a child UP in the world. If two men could in fact raise a child correctly, then logically God should have made it so that two men could bring a child INto the world. But He didn't. Yes, yes, even heterosexual couples can raise a child wrong. But by placing that child into a situation that is the same or worse does no good! At least heterosexual couples have the POTENTIAL to become what God had intended! But a gay couple has NO potential to EVER become what God intended, unless they live chaste, and as friends (they could never raise a childe right together). And when I say "raise a child right or correct" I mean to say that the Child is raised the way God would like him/her to be raised. That isn't to say a homosexual couple could raise a child, and by the Grace of God the child comes to know the truth. A homosexual couple *could* raise a child, and they have. But they (unintentionally in most instances) impart a bias toward the gay lifestyle, severe sexual dissorder, and mental confusion. These are in no way "normal". As we are the Catholic Church, we seak to restore humanity to where it was in the beggining, before Adam and Eve fell. By allowing homosexuals to 1) marry, and 2) adopt we are setting our selves up to move further from that reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 The fact remains that one sin does not do a child better than another. That's right, Jake. Besides, in ANY kind of family, the more sin there is (of ANY kind), the less peace there is. So why let families whose relationship is based on mortal sin (whether homosexual couples, cohabitating couples, etc.) adopt a child, when such children need a measure of peace in their lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Hyp, Clearly you ARE the exception. Reason being, you did not "choose" per se to "adopt" the child you are caring for. It is a family member in need. Therefore, we know that you are caring for this child with all your heart out of Charity and kindness, through no intention of your own, and for no "need" of your own but to help your family. We are talking about two homoesual men or women who are actively homoesexual and wish to "pretend" like they can actually have a family. There are of course exceptions, but if you base descisions on exceptions, you leave the door wide open for the typical. The typical is this: Two men or women who selfishley wish to "create" a family. While in your situation the care of the child is made out of love and compassion, the typical reason homosexuals will adopt will be for quite the opposte; selfishness. They seak not the good of the child, rather, the skewed idea that they (a homosexual couple) might have a normal family. Homosexual adoption fosters the idea that homosexuality is normal, that a family isn't necessarily mother, father, children; but worst of all it fosters the "experimental" idea that children do not NEED one gender or the other while they grow up. This is purely against logic - because if a child didn't need both genders to grow up, then it makes no sense that a child would require both genders to be born! In the extreme of things - if we ONLY had homosexual marriage, and ONLY homosexual couples - life would cease to reproduce and humanity itself would fall. That of course is the extreme, which hopefully will never be reached. But to say that even a small mixutre of this is "okay" is to put a stumbling block before LIFE, which is to side with the culture of death, which is to bed with murder (aka abortion), and to deny God's plan that we "be fruitfull and multiply". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 In the extreme of things - if we ONLY had homosexual marriage, and ONLY homosexual couples - life would cease to reproduce and humanity itself would fall. That of course is the extreme, which hopefully will never be reached. But to say that even a small mixutre of this is "okay" is to put a stumbling block before LIFE, which is to side with the culture of death, which is to bed with murder (aka abortion), and to deny God's plan that we "be fruitfull and multiply". Jake, It's not extreme for today's society and we wouldn't die out. That's why cloning, artifical insemination, in vitro fertilization, and 'test tube' babies are also an attack on the social order. They all devalue the male and female as necessary to each other in a complimentary and other completeing way. It turns so much of human nature that we are given by God to meaningless "traits" that can be overcome with science and human will. That's the bigger danger and the greater damage. The continued destruction of societal order for the selfishness of individuals. It's society self-destructing by sacrificing the Good for the Greater Number for the Happiness of the Few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Like always you are totally right, JasJis. I got a bit of tunnle vission. I forgot about all the ways humans are trying to re-invent the wheele. Only, we're trying to make it square! LOL. We're trying to perfect what God has already made perfect! It still is an attack on Life nonetheless. And as such, it will cause our extinction (physically, maybe not - morally, yes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 Like always you are totally right, JasJis. That's just a nasty rumour and really not true. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *StarryEyedAngel* Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 i'm not an idiot, i knew exactly what she meant, i still found it offensive. I was just quoting what the Holy Father said, I don't want to offend anyone, but the church teaches that Homosexuality is wrong, and against our beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 logjam before mote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 thhe church teaches homosexual acts are wrong, not homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I guess we need to define "wrong". Wrong as in sinful, or wrong as in dissordered? Because the Church teaches that both homosexuality AND homosexual acts are wrong. The acts are wrong because they are sinful. The orientation is wrong because it is a dissorder. Homosexuality is NOT natural. It is a disease that needs a cure. Sorry to put it so bluntly. I have no fear of homosexuals. I have a family member who is, and I have friends who are. I love them! But the Truth be told, they need help. That isn't to say that I don't. I do need help, but in OTHER areas. We all have our vices. Homosexuals are not an exception. I AM afraid of homosexuality, just as I am afraid of cancer, aids, scitsophrania (sp?), etc. I AM afraid of homosexual acts, just like I am afraid of sex outside of marriage, murder (including abortion), lying, stealing, etc. Both the orientation and the acts are wrong - in their respective deffinitions of "wrong". The orientation, just like any dissorder, can be controlled. And a virtuous homosexual can carry his or her cross for their entire life and see eternal salvation. The acts on the other hand are sinful, and if continued, lead to death and eternal damnation. The Church, however, does not teach us to HATE homosexuals. They are humans just like everyone else. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 dUSt when you see this delete my account. I've changed my password to something I won't remember, I shall not return g'day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 May the charity of Christ be with all of us in greater abundance than it currently is. Hyper -- My dear friend, you know that I understand this, but this reactionary attitude has to stop. You just can't keep reacting this way every time the topic of homosexuality is broached. You see the subject line: "Homosexuals Adopting Children." Maybe it would be prudent for you not to read threads that are so clearly about an issue you're so passionate about. Anger is sinful, so topics such as this are occasions to sin for you. I know you'll be back, and I hope that you'll consider not having this type of reactionary attitude in the future. May God bless you and Mary keep you while you're away, and I hope you'll stay in touch. To everyone else -- Although I intend to not get angry over this issue, I can say that, once again, some of y'all are not acting charitably. There is more to being charitable than just telling the Truth, there's also the way in which you tell the Truth. Some of you have not been telling the Truth in a manner that considers the feelings of others, including Hyper and including me. I ask you to please consider all topics as if someone who is directly involved with the topic is going to read it. This is not something "clinical" that all of us can talk about objectively; some of us are directly involved in this issue, this issue is a part of some of our lives. That needs to be considered. That said, I think this has been handled better this time than other times in the past, and I'm not jumping on anyone. I'm just asking everyone involved to please, please be more charitable. When you think you're being as charitable as you can be, please be more charitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Homosexuals forfeit the right to have families, they would do horrible horrible damage to children and society if they were intrusted with the up-bringing of children, kids might start having sex before marriage in mind-boggling numbers; children might start turning to drugs, pornography, and MTV; the rates of teenaged depression, suicide, and pregnancy might become ridiculously high. Oh wait, they already are. What do you suggest be done about children who are already being raised by Gay and Lesbian couples? Perhaps jack-booted thugs should be sent into every home that has a lavendar flag in the front yard and children should be ripped out of the arms of the only people who give a beaver dam about them. That's not likely to do any damage to kids at all. This is a battle that has been lost by the Right (as in Right-Wing) and I fall to my knees and thank the great God for that. You people would have kids whither on the vine, languish in foster home after foster home, get turned loose when they turn 18 with a little money, and a few items of clothing, rather than be raised by people who want them, that is sick. If anybody's looking for a disorder that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I guess we need to define "wrong". Wrong as in sinful, or wrong as in dissordered? Because the Church teaches that both homosexuality AND homosexual acts are wrong. The acts are wrong because they are sinful. The orientation is wrong because it is a dissorder. Homosexuality is NOT natural. It is a disease that needs a cure. Sorry to put it so bluntly. I have no fear of homosexuals. I have a family member who is, and I have friends who are. I love them! But the Truth be told, they need help. That isn't to say that I don't. I do need help, but in OTHER areas. We all have our vices. Homosexuals are not an exception. I AM afraid of homosexuality, just as I am afraid of cancer, aids, scitsophrania (sp?), etc. I AM afraid of homosexual acts, just like I am afraid of sex outside of marriage, murder (including abortion), lying, stealing, etc. Both the orientation and the acts are wrong - in their respective deffinitions of "wrong". The orientation, just like any dissorder, can be controlled. And a virtuous homosexual can carry his or her cross for their entire life and see eternal salvation. The acts on the other hand are sinful, and if continued, lead to death and eternal damnation. The Church, however, does not teach us to HATE homosexuals. They are humans just like everyone else. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Jake are you attempting to represnt the proceeding as Church teaching? It is not. The Church has not made up Her mind on the nascence of the homosexual orientation, or on whether or not it is a disorder (there is a difference between a thing being disordered and it being a disorder), you have. You have a right to your opinion, but it is not that of the Church. The Catholic Church certainly would not use language as brutal as that you chose to use to make your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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