Which Baptism

[running the race]

I was having a conversation the other day with a non-Catholic friend about the sacraments, and when I eventually started talking about baptism he asked which one. I just sat there; I had no clue what he was talking about. Could somebody please help shed some light on this?

[Laudate_Dominum]

Not sure.. Among some Protestants there is some dispute about baptizing in the Name of Jesus vs. Trinitarian baptism. Sometimes they make a distinction between water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. My guess would be that it is one of these things, most probably the latter.

[Mateo el Feo]

He also might have been trying to claim that "water Baptism" was the Baptism of John (the Baptist), and another (spiritual rebirth, non-water?) was the Baptism of Jesus.

So, the correct Catholic response to the question of which one would be, "Yes." LOL. Joking aside, Catholic Baptism is not the Baptism of John. It is when we are spiritually reborn into the Body of Christ.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Mateo el Feo

[Servant of the Secret Fire]

Here's another question - which baptism (ie that of Jesus or that of John) is referred to in John 4:1-2 "Now when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptising more disciples than John (although Jesus himself did not baptise, but only his disciples), he left Judea and departed to Galilee."


My first thought is that this was John's baptism (or equivalent) and that Christian baptism was not administered to anyone until after Christ's Ascension (based on the great commission in Matthew 28:19).

Does anyone know if this is true or not?

If I am right, are we then to understand that Jesus instructed His disciples to administer a baptism equivalent to that of John? Also were the Apostles ever baptised by Christ? (OK I know that last one sounds like a silly question but, given the prominence of John's baptism, and the fact that at least some of the Apostles were disciples of John, it does seem like something one of the evangelists would have mentioned. I suppose what I am getting at is whether or not the Apostles were effectively baptised at Pentecost ie baptsim and confirmation rolled into one.)

Edited January 13, 2008 by Servant of the Secret Fire

[Dismas]

[quote name='Servant of the Secret Fire' post='1445296' date='Jan 13 2008, 02:01 PM']If I am right, are we then to understand that Jesus instructed His disciples to administer a baptism equivalent to that of John? Also were the Apostles ever baptised by Christ? (OK I know that last one sounds like a silly question but, given the prominence of John's baptism, and the fact that at least some of the Apostles were disciples of John, it does seem like something one of the evangelists would have mentioned. I suppose what I am getting at is whether or not the Apostles were effectively baptised at Pentecost ie baptsim and confirmation rolled into one.)[/quote]

I always thought that water baptism was started here:
[quote name='John 13:5-15 (RSV-CE)']5 Then he poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which he was girded.
6 He came to Simon Peter; and Peter said to him, "Lord, do you wash my feet?" 7 Jesus answered him, "What I am doing you do not know now, but afterward you will understand." 8 Peter said to him, "You shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part in me." 9 Simon Peter said to him, "Lord, not my feet only but also my hands and my head!" 10 Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but he is clean all over; and you are clean, but not every one of you." 11 For he knew who was to betray him; that was why he said, "You are not all clean."
12 When he had washed their feet, and taken his garments, and resumed his place, he said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? 13 You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. 14 If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that you also should do as I have done to you.[/quote]
Consider that the Apostles then received the Eucharist, and the order of the Sacraments of Initiation.

[abercius24]

In a sense there is only one Baptism -- that being the moment God receives one back into His family by virtue of His grace:

1277 Baptism is birth into the new life in Christ. In accordance with the Lord's will, it is necessary for salvation, as is the Church herself, which we enter by Baptism.

1279 The fruit of Baptism, or baptismal grace, is a rich reality that includes forgiveness of original sin and all personal sins, birth into the new life by which man becomes an adoptive son of the Father, a member of Christ and a temple of the Holy Spirit. By this very fact the person baptized is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ, and made a sharer in the priesthood of Christ.


There are three forms of baptism: "Baptism in water and the Spirit", "Baptism of Desire" and "Baptism of Blood". We are generally intended, though, to only receive "baptism in water and the Spirit":

720 Finally, with John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit begins the restoration to man of "the divine likeness," prefiguring what he would achieve with and in Christ. John's baptism was for repentance; baptism in water and the Spirit will be a new birth.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.


Remember, many Protestants deny the fruit of "baptism in water and the Spirit". They believe our Catholic form of baptism is only of water. For them, baptism of the Spirit occurs when one receives Jesus into their heart for the first time. They also generally believe that baptism of blood is just another way of accepting Christ into your heart. So in short, both Protestants and Catholics/Orthodox believe in multiple forms of baptism, but we classify those forms differently.

Edited January 13, 2008 by abercius24

[N/A Gone]

There are various answers as we see from the great posts in this thread. But there are 2 other factors to consider.

1.) The denominational background of your friend. Various proto groups have different lingos and systematics for the place/function of baptism.

2.) the context in which you guys were talking about. I would just ask him to explain. Jargon is a serious problem in catholic/proto talks and it only gets worked out if you are willing to speak through the terms.

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='running the race' post='1445239' date='Jan 13 2008, 07:08 AM']I was having a conversation the other day with a non-Catholic friend about the sacraments, and when I eventually started talking about baptism he asked which one. I just sat there; I had no clue what he was talking about. Could somebody please help shed some light on this?[/quote]

Charismatic Protestants refer to an outpouring of the Holy Spirit (resulting in speaking in tongues) as "the Baptism of the Holy Spirit." Could your friend be referring to this?

[running the race]

Thanks everybody. Those are all likely answers. The problem is I just don't know what he could have been referring to. I'm just going to have to ask. I knew there were different views on baptism, but I didn't know there were so many.