How Do You Go About Preaching The Gospel Of Jesus

["Kyrie eleison"]

This is an issue I have been struggling with. I have a cousin who is a lesbian and 2 close friends who are gay.

I have had discussions with them about their lifestyle, but I haven't quite told them that they are in grave danger spiritually of damnation as any of us who are fornicators, if they do not repent and change their ways.

Am I committing a sin by not giving them the straight facts, as a Chrisitian? For those of you who personally have relatives or friends who are of this persuasion, how did you preach the gospel of Chirst to them?

Are they to be treated differently because of their disorde, preaching wise?

My cousin just mentioned to me that she wants to have a kid and is looking into invitro fertilization.

What does the Catholic Church teach about creation in this manner?

Please help as I feel very responsible for my cousin.

Edited January 11, 2008 by "Kyrie eleison"

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1444585' date='Jan 11 2008, 10:36 AM']This is an issue I have been struggling with. I have a cousin who is a lesbian and 2 close friends who are gay.

I have had discussions with them about their lifestyle, but I haven't quite told them that they are in grave danger spiritually of damnation as any of us who are fornicators, if they do not repent and change their ways.

Am I committing a sin by not giving them the straight facts, as a Chrisitian? For those of you who personally have relatives or friends who are of this persuasion, how did you preach the gospel of Chirst to them?

Are they to be treated differently because of their disorde, preaching wise?

My cousin just mentioned to me that she wants to have a kid and is looking into invitro fertilization.

What does the Catholic Church teach about creation in this manner?

Please help as I feel very responsible for my cousin.[/quote]

Hello,

Thank you for posting this topic.

The short answer to your question about evangelizing your friends is that it depends.

My wife has a friend who is living in a lesbian relationship, and we have talked about this several times. My wife does not want to offend her or put her off, but she mourns for her friend (a fallen away Catholic) and knows that deep down she is not happy.

When we visit these friends we show all the love and respect to them that we would to anybody. We try to help them out when they need it and we always treat them as equals (since my wife and I are sinners too!).

In my conversations with my wife about these things, I have told her that we must, for the time being, simply be friends with her and continue to gain her trust and respect. We must be charitable in all things.

Yet I have also told my wife to look for opportunities to get into deeper conversations with her friend. Once trust and respect has been built on the side of the friend in sin, this is an open door for words of encouragement, and perhaps even instruction. We are continuing to work towards that, and will take the opportunity when it comes.

Now back to the general principles. I said "it depends" because your actions must be appropriate to the context of your relationship with that person. If you are just casual friends, then your words will be taken offensively. Even if you are close friends but you have found that conversation about your friends' "sexual orientation" (not so sure I like that term), then you must be careful. If you are close friends and your friends trust you and look up to you, then, with the power of Christ's charity, you can share the Church's view on these things.

It would be good to read up on exactly what that view is, and [b]why[/b] the Church in fact holds this view.

In vitro fertilization is most certainly against the Church's teaching whether the couple is homosexual or not. This divorces the creation of life from the love between a husband and wife and unites it with the laboratory. The laboratory is good for creating medicine and machines but not human beings. If this is allowed, it blurs the line between human beings and other entities that are not created in God's image. This is the heart of the abortion issue.

If you want to see a particularly horrific view of artificial means of creating human life, read the beginning of Alduous Huxley's "Brave New World". I have never been more aghast at anything I have read than that.

In any case, I do hope this helps. Pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you, and then you will be able to feel in your heart what you must say, and even when you should be silent.

God bless,

Philip

["Kyrie eleison"]

Thank you Lord Philip from the bottom of my heart. I am in tears and I have been struggling, as I stated I have not been as forthright in discussing the consequences of their actions, especially now that she wants to have a baby.

As I read your post and the unconditional love that you display, I too, love my cousin and my two friends. They are great people. I too agree that I am a sinner, just as them and have no right to condemn them. I treat them no different and they are welcome into my home with open arms.

I will continue to pray for guidance and peace at this time of my struggle with sharing my faith.

[Paddington]

Kyrie, it is great news that you have a close friendship with them. There must have been a lot of things that went well to get this far.

2 cents on the issue in general is....

* The debate has too much "I give you my evidence and dismiss your evidence" and not enough "Jesus told us not to expect too much out of life in this world." We have all been tube-fed the idea that life is about fulfilling dreams, and that can be very dangerous.

["Kyrie eleison"]

Paddington,

It gets very difficult, as I am a mother of three, who is trying to be a devout Catholic. I have been to establishments that are totally gay or lesbian and I feel like a hyprocrite. I wonder if I am crossing the line to go to these places with my cousin or my gay friends.

When I was younger and not so devout, I would go with my gay friends and not bat an eye to what was going on around me.

It's very different now that I am a mother and I have discussed the lesbian and gay lifestyles with my kids, especially because their aunt is a lesbian.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

For many gay people (I would imagine most) the thought of not being able to live as a loving couple and to have a family of their own is a source of great mourning. It's not possible just to say, "Catholicism teaches that you should lead a celibate life," and leave it at that. Their grief and uncertainty need to be taken into account, and this requires empathy, understanding, and real compassion. I have heard too many Catholics say piously, "Love the sinner, hate the sin," before going on to say the most incredibly hurtful things about gay and lesbian people - as if that Bible verse is a rubber-stamp that permits them to be malicious and judgemental without let or hindrance. We need to break away from that approach entirely, as it hurts people and fosters distrust.

This is a society that teaches that there is no real fulfilment outside a romantic context. I have friends who just can't accept my vocation as a nun - one person referred to the religious life as 'amputating your sexuality' (even though no one who tried to cut themselves off from their desires would even make it through the novitiate) and another person wrote the following in response to a Facebook quiz:

[quote][b]Q: Are you in love with number 12?[/b]
The creator of this quiz doesn't waste any time at all, right? Anyway. Vicky's a nice person, and I think she should pursue that kind of love and find a guy. I understand how her religion restricts her in ways that I can't really explain here, but love (not any love, the love I'm talking about here) can't be ignored - she needs to find someone. I'm taken in any case, but I know Vicky's a nice enough person, and if she pursued it like I said, I can't see her having much trouble finding someone nice.[/quote]

As you can imagine, I wasn't exactly pleased to discover this sitting on the Internet for everybody to see, so I posted a comment explaining that my religion isn't 'restrictive' and that I don't need to 'find someone' to be happy. But I can't blame him for writing that, because there are so many elements in the media that explicitly tell us that life without romance is bleak and unhappy. Romantic love is even used to market basic products such as stain remover and pillowcases, to give just two examples that I've seen lately. For people who are steeped in this culture, gay or straight, even the concept of a single life is difficult to accept.

Irrespective of their sexual orientation, people need to know that celibacy isn't barren and lonely and unfulfilling. They need to encounter its blessings and realise how very rich this way of life can be. It's not something that can be taught. It's something that has to be learnt first-hand, as I know from my own experiences. I am attracted to a very close male friend, and he returns my feelings. Saying no to a relationship and explaining my religious vocation to him is one of the most painful things I've ever had to do, but in spite of the hurt I did not feel as though I had repressed my emotions. I felt as though I had liberated them through my honesty. With that honesty came creativity and courage and determined focus, all of which cohered to marvellous effect. The resultant blessings must be different for each person, as God has a unique plan for everybody, but they will always be of value.

It won't be easy for your friends to realise this. You won't be able to teach them. The best thing you can do for them is to pray for their happiness and their peace, and trust that the Holy Spirit will inspire them to make good choices. Perhaps God will grant you the opportunity to discuss things with them openly one day. If that chance ever arises, remember that they may feel resentment at a married woman telling them that they can't have the sort of love and happy lifestyle that she enjoys. They probably won't understand why at first. Who would? So go gently. It sounds like you've done a fantastic job so far.

Regarding the IVF, I think you ought to explain to your friend the dangers and ethical problems surrounding the treatment. Is she aware that several fertilised embryos will be destroyed on her account? Her doctor will have told her of the health risks, but probably not of the ethical issues. Perhaps you could suggest that she get involved as a volunteer at a centre for disadvantaged children or some such place, instead of trying to have children of her own. Always offer a constructive alternative rather than saying, "Don't do this. Don't do that." Otherwise she will think that there is nothing positive or enriching for her to do at all.

Beyond that, pray.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Cathoholic Anonymous

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]For many gay people (I would imagine most) the thought of not being able to live with the person they love and to have a family of their own is a source of great mourning. It's not possible just to say, "Catholicism teaches that you should lead a celibate life." Their grief and uncertainty need to be taken into account.[/quote]

CA,

I have a friend who was separated from her husband for 5 years and she did not believe that they were going to get back together. She met a man and fell in love, to make a long story short, she did get back together as they have kids, and she mourns for this man that she fell in love with.

We all have our crosses to bear.



[quote]This is a society that teaches there is no real fulfilment outside a romantic context. I have friends who just can't accept my vocation as a nun Irrespective of their sexual orientation, people need to know that celibacy isn't barren and lonely and unfulfilling.-[/quote]

I didn't know you are a nun. I admire that greatly. I actually have a girlfriend who has been celibate for years and she is very fulfilled.


[quote]They need to encounter its blessings and realise how very rich this way of life can be. It's not something that can be taught. It's something that has to be learnt first-hand, as I know from my own experiences.[/quote]

She too told me that is something that she had to learn. Men are attracted to her, but she does not feel the need to be in a relationship.

She is comfortable with her celibacy.


[quote]I am attracted to a very close male friend, and he returns my feelings. Saying no to a relationship and explaining my religious vocation to him is one of the most painful things I've ever had to do, but in spite of the hurt I did not feel as though I had repressed my emotions. I felt as though I had liberated them through my honesty. With that honesty came creativity and courage and determined focus, all of which cohered to marvellous effect. The resultant blessings must be different for each person, as God has a unique plan for everybody, but they will always be of value.[/quote]

You are a nun, you are not dead, you have eyes, you have feelings. I do admire your fortitude.

[quote]I think the best thing that you can do is explain to your friend the dangers and ethical problems surrounding IVF. Is she aware that several fertilised embryos will be destroyed in the quest for successful treatment? Her doctor will have told her of the health risks, but probably not of the ethical issues. Perhaps you could suggest that she get involved as a volunteer at a centre for disadvantaged children or some such place. Always offer a constructive alternative rather than saying, "Don't do this. Don't do that." Otherwise she will think that there is nothing positive or enriching for her to do at all.

Beyond that, pray.[/quote]

Thank you so much and god bless you!

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1444747' date='Jan 12 2008, 01:47 AM']We all have our crosses to bear.
I didn't know you are a nun. I admire that greatly. I actually have a girlfriend who has been celibate for years and she is very fulfilled.
She too told me that is something that she had to learn. Men are attracted to her, but she does not feel the need to be in a relationship.

She is comfortable with her celibacy.
You are a nun, you are not dead, you have eyes, you have feelings. I do admire your fortitude.
Thank you so much and god bless you![/quote]

I am not a nun yet. I should have made that clearer. (I doubt that my friend would have written a Facebook note about me needing to find a man if I were already wandering around in a habit - even he isn't that tactless!) I am an aspirant at the moment. I'm also a carer for a friend with a long-term illness, and I will enter once she is better. We made pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham, and Our Lady gave me an assurance that total recovery is going to happen, no matter what the doctor might think. Hopefully this means that entrance will not be too far off.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1444752' date='Jan 11 2008, 09:03 PM']I am not a nun yet. I should have made that clearer. (I doubt that my friend would have written a Facebook note about me needing to find a man if I were already wandering around in a habit - even he isn't that tactless!) I am an aspirant at the moment. I'm also a carer for a friend with a long-term illness, and I will enter once she is better. We made pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham, and Our Lady gave me an assurance that total recovery is going to happen, no matter what the doctor might think. Hopefully this means that entrance will not be too far off.[/quote]

When I was around 10 or 11 I did want to enter into a convent and become a nun. When I see the nuns at my parish running around and serving the body of christ, I am in such awe and respect for them.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1444753' date='Jan 12 2008, 02:06 AM']When I was around 10 or 11 I did want to enter into a convent and become a nun. When I see the nuns at my parish running around and serving the body of christ, I am in such awe and respect for them.[/quote]

I was about ten when I realised that I was called to be a sister. It was in the foyer of a hospital chapel. I can remember the exact place where I was standing when the realisation hit me. On the day the prioress and I settle a firm entrance date I am going to go and give thanks in that chapel. Lots of things have happened since then, but the desire has remained steadfast - and much to my relief and happiness, my parents have now accepted the idea and have even started to talk about it with excitement. At her own request, Mum is coming to meet the sisters (tomorrow, in fact!) and a few weeks ago she even made a suggestion for my religious name.

I don't know why I'm babbling about this in a thread on homosexuality and the Gospel...

["Kyrie eleison"]

I don't know why I'm babbling about this in a thread on homosexuality and the Gospel...
[/quote]

It's okay. I have told my son that I would be very proud if he ever decided to become a priest as his Confirmation teacher speaks very highly of his presence as a young Christian. He is a very good speaker also, As for my daughter...I don't believe that she has a calling to the sisterhood.

[CatherineM]

If your diocese has a courage group, they may also have an encourage group which is for the family and friends of gay people. This is a group that follows the church's teaching about chastity. There are several good books written by their founder Fr. Harvey, who was recommended by Fr. Groschel to be the priest to start the group. The information on how the church teaches us to deal with this situation can be accessed off the home page for the courage apostolate on couragerc.net.

[Dismas]

[quote name='St. Thomas Aquinas']Whatever is received is received according to the mode of the receiver.[/quote]

In this time of exultant homosexuality, it is difficult to testify to the Truth. It is made harder by the hardening of the heart by repetitive grave sin; the very understanding of sin is lost to the hardened sinner. Even worse, the suffering according the guilt of sin eats at the mind, and leads to further neurosis. To understand this better, I would suggest seeing "Macbeth".

Because of these difficulties, we must approach the matter lovingly and delicately, and not so delicately that we aren't witnessing.

With that in mind, here are some important considerations:
1. Receive the Sacraments, and frequently. Our own sins darken our minds, poison our tongues, and harden our hearts. There's no need in making such a difficult task herculean. Also, when we receive Jesus, we assimilate His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity into ourselves, and how much easier it will be to profess Jesus when we are one body with Jesus.

2. Prayer, especially contemplation before the Sacrament and the Rosary are powerful tools in the arsenal of Grace. The calcifications of sin upon the heart of a hardened sinner are cracked not with mere words but with prayer.

3. Don't forget the Green Scapular. Mind you, this is a tactic reserved for special ops. As I live in frigid Wisconsin, coats are pretty common to wear during half the year. Should you happen to buy a coat for this person, and let out a seam, and sew in an undetectable Green Scapular... (and yes, be glad I've defected from the other side)

4. Consecration to Jesus through Mary - I would suggest the method according to St. Maximilian Kolbe, though St. Louis de Montfort is also good. It will change your life, and those around you.

5. Establish a relationship with your guardian angel. Angels have a great deal to teach us, even about other people.

6. Learn to depend on the Holy Spirit. The time of Grace is often unexpected, and you may be quite unprepared. Where your intellect fails you, God will provide.

[quote name='me']I'm an unlucky man, so I make sure to cheat as much as possible.[/quote]
How does this help you? Well, naturally it doesn't - you have to provide for that. However, the supernatural builds on the natural, and when you have a supernatural arsenal of Grace, how can you not help your friends?

With that said, I have one last thing:
7. A sin is a wound, and a sinner is wounded. When we are told to love the sinner and hate the sin, we are to understand this basic fact. Sometimes removing the debris from a wound hurts more than the wound itself, but it is necessary for the sake of healing. Therefore, that the sinner may not despair, gentle hands are needed for the job of dressing such wounds.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Dismas

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]It is made harder by the hardening of the heart by repetitive grave sin; the very understanding of sin is lost to the hardened sinner. Even worse, the suffering according the guilt of sin eats at the mind, and leads to further neurosis. To understand this better, I would suggest seeing "Macbeth".[/quote]

I know my cousing would like to go to MASS, but she feels so unworthy. I am going to ask her if she wants to go with me to the SUNRISE easter MASS, she has mentioned that she would like to.

Thank you so much Dismas, for your knowledge, you are so much further into your spiritual warfare than I. It is a spiritual war and we must put on our FULL armor! God bless you and yours'.

Edited January 13, 2008 by "Kyrie eleison"

[Socrates]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1444585' date='Jan 11 2008, 01:36 PM']This is an issue I have been struggling with. I have a cousin who is a lesbian and 2 close friends who are gay.

I have had discussions with them about their lifestyle, but I haven't quite told them that they are in grave danger spiritually of damnation as any of us who are fornicators, if they do not repent and change their ways.

Am I committing a sin by not giving them the straight facts, as a Chrisitian? For those of you who personally have relatives or friends who are of this persuasion, how did you preach the gospel of Chirst to them?

Are they to be treated differently because of their disorde, preaching wise?

My cousin just mentioned to me that she wants to have a kid and is looking into invitro fertilization.

What does the Catholic Church teach about creation in this manner?

Please help as I feel very responsible for my cousin.[/quote]
Are your cousin and friends Catholic? Christian?

Homosexual activity is clearly condemned by both the Bible and the constant teaching of the Church as gravely sinful and disordered. In vitro fertilization is also clearly condemned by the Church.

There is no reason for the moral truth to be held back when preaching to homosexuals anymore than for any other sinners. Oftentimes teaching Christ's truth involves telling people what they don't want to hear.
It's usually not easy to tell people involved in sinful lifestyles what they are doing is wrong. I feel I've failed to be a good witness at times when dealing with aquaintances talking about such things as fornication or pornography.
There are more and less effective ways of dealing with this problem, but if these people are close to you, I think it is your duty to make it clear where you stand, and it would not be Christian witness to act as though you are perfectly ok with their sinful and perverted "lifestyle."

Edited January 14, 2008 by Socrates