Does Anyone Have A Relative Or Close Friend Who Is Gay Or Lesbian?

[Kitty]

[quote name='Spamity Calamity' post='1446966' date='Jan 17 2008, 08:56 AM']Wait...what does SSA mean?[/quote]

Same-Sex Attraction

[Socrates]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1446856' date='Jan 17 2008, 12:01 AM']You must just be one of those people who does that then because I don't make assumptions like that. "Gay" is slang for "homosexual", in my view.
Okay, did you even read what I posted previously? Homosexuality is NOT a sin. It is NOT a sin. Homosexual activity IS a sin. I don't think homosexuality is like "yay, it's great!" but it is not "bad" or "evil." It's a serious issue and for some it is a serious and difficult struggle.

You're making that generalization again: God doesn't make people gay. Well, believe it or not, some people have been born with homosexual tendencies. You don't keep track of every gay person who has ever been born. You don't keep track of their life. You cannot say "God does not make people gay". You're not God. How would you know that?[/quote]
Maybe I'm wrong, but when you say someone "came out" as "gay," I assume they're "living the lifestyle" (eg. committing homosexual acts or at least seeking out homosexual "relationships.")

A homosexual is one who commits homosexual acts. A person should not be defined by temptations which he does not act on. To paraphrase Batman: "It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you."

One who resists temptations to steal is not a thief.
One who resists temptations to adultery is not an adulterer.
People should not be defined by inclinations to sin.

And I'll repeat: God does [b]not[/b] make anybody "gay" or homosexual.
That would be saying God is responsible for disorder and inclination to sin.
God only makes that which is good.
Disorder is the result of original sin (a privation of a due good).
You need to get your theology straight (no pun intended).

And if "God makes people gay," does God also make people have a sexual attraction to small children? To barnyard animals??

And I've never heard of an infant coming forth from his mother's womb filled with homosexual desires (other than perhaps Stewie from Family Guy).

Edited January 18, 2008 by Socrates

[Alycin]

A homosexual is not one who commits homosexual acts anymore than a heterosexual is one who commits heterosexual acts.

[Alycin]

P.S. There are lots of disorders and I don't think it's really your place to say whether or not God made someone disordered or not...

And not all disorders are labeled as sinful.

[Alycin]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1447243' date='Jan 17 2008, 09:29 PM']And I've never heard of an infant coming forth from his mother's womb filled with homosexual desires (other than perhaps Stewie from Family Guy).[/quote]

I've never heard of an infant coming forth from the womb filled with sexual desires of any kind at all.

[Kitty]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1447243' date='Jan 17 2008, 09:29 PM']Maybe I'm wrong, but when you say someone "came out" as "gay," I assume they're "living the lifestyle" (eg. committing homosexual acts or at least seeking out homosexual "relationships.")[/quote]

What...I never said they "came out" as gay. I just said they were gay. And it's not your place to make assumptions about people's lifestyles. Just because I said I'm "straight" does not mean I'm having sex.

[quote]A homosexual is one who commits homosexual acts. A person should not be defined by temptations which he does not act on.[/quote]

So if I have temptations, and I am heterosexual, but do not act on them, what should I be labeled? "Nothing"? Your claim makes no sense.

[quote]One who resists temptations to steal is not a thief.
One who resists temptations to adultery is not an adulterer.
People should not be defined by inclinations to sin.[/quote]

You really don't want to listen to people who have different opinions than you, so I might as well just give up trying to make this point, but I'll say it one more time, [b]homosexuality is not an automatic inclination to sin.[/b]

[quote]And I'll repeat: God does [b]not[/b] make anybody "gay" or homosexual.
That would be saying God is responsible for disorder and inclination to sin.
God only makes that which is good.
Disorder is the result of original sin (a privation of a due good).
You need to get your theology straight (no pun intended).[/quote]

Do you have ANY proof, at all, that proves your statement that God does not make people gay? Is your brain somehow linked to God's mind? (and don't give me baised websites that claim "no one's born gay!" That is not proof either.) I don't have proof that God doesn't make people gay. I have no proof that he does make them gay. Give yourself a break and don't try and speak for God.

[quote]And if "God makes people gay," does God also make people have a sexual attraction to small children? To barnyard animals??[/quote]

You're making an insulting, borderline homophobic generalization. Being gay should NOT be compared to pedophilia or zoophilia. They are completely different disorders.

[quote]And I've never heard of an infant coming forth from his mother's womb filled with homosexual desires[/quote]

Yeah, I've never heard of an infant coming from his mothers womb with any sexual desire whatsoever. I think those desires happen around puberty or teenage years.

I'm just curious, have you ever even gotten to know someone who was gay? Or attempted to talk to them?

Edited January 18, 2008 by Kitty

[Kitty]

double post

Edited January 18, 2008 by Kitty

[Socrates]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1447288' date='Jan 17 2008, 11:27 PM']What...I never said they "came out" as gay. I just said they were gay. And it's not your place to make assumptions about people's lifestyles. Just because I said I'm "straight" does not mean I'm having sex.
So if I have temptations, and I am heterosexual, but do not act on them, what should I be labeled? "Nothing"? Your claim makes no sense.
You really don't want to listen to people who have different opinions than you, so I might as well just give up trying to make this point, but I'll say it one more time, [b]homosexuality is not an automatic inclination to sin.[/b][/quote]
It is Church teaching that homosexual inclinations are [b]objectively disordered[/b] - that is they are ordered toward a sinful act. From the [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfhomop.htm"]words of our Holy Father I linked to earlier in this thread[/url]:[quote]Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, [b]it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil[/b]; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.[/quote]
The inclination is not a sin, but an inclination toward a sin (intrinsic moral evil), and to act on it is sinful.

[quote]Do you have ANY proof, at all, that proves your statement that God does not make people gay? Is your brain somehow linked to God's mind? (and don't give me baised websites that claim "no one's born gay!" That is not proof either.) I don't have proof that God doesn't make people gay. I have no proof that he does make them gay. Give yourself a break and don't try and speak for God.[/quote]
God does not make disorder or "tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil" of any kind.
A tendency towards moral evil does [b]not[/b] come from God, but is a result of original sin.

[quote]You're making an insulting, borderline homophobic generalization. Being gay should NOT be compared to pedophilia or zoophilia. They are completely different disorders.[/quote]
Maybe disgusting, but I'm actually making a very valid point.
It is well-documented that some people do in fact have very deep-rooted tendencies to pedophilia, zoophilia, and a host of other sexual perversions as well.
They are disordered, just as homosexuality is, although even worse.
Are you claiming God creates some serious sexual disorders, just not the "really, really, really bad" ones?
This is a very serious point, which you simply dodged by throwing out the p.c. epithet "homophobia."

Answer - God does not create ANY objectively disordered inclinations in people of any kind.
They are the result of original sin and man's concupiscence.
It's past time you learned some basic theology.
I know enough about God to tell you HE is NOT the author of inclinations toward moral evil.

[quote]Yeah, I've never heard of an infant coming from his mothers womb with any sexual desire whatsoever. I think those desires happen around puberty or teenage years. [/quote]
Exactly - it was you claimed they were "born gay."

[quote]I'm just curious, have you ever even gotten to know someone who was gay? Or attempted to talk to them?[/quote]I was briefly employed by a lesbian - did nothing to change my opinion, but that's irrelevent to what I'm discussing here.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Socrates

[Kitty]

I'm not even going to reply. I see that you are completey closed minded to anything anyone else has to say over this subject and you have not even provided proof that backs up some of your claims even though I asked. I'd just be repeating myself if I replied and I really don't have time for nonsense like that. Oh well.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Kitty

[carrdero]

[quote]Socrates writes It is Church teaching that homosexual inclinations are objectively disordered - that is they are ordered toward a sinful act. From the words of our Holy Father I linked to earlier in this thread:[/quote]
And these teachings are as primitive and prejudiced as the day they were spoken.

[quote]Socrates writes The inclination is not a sin, but an inclination toward a sin (intrinsic moral evil), and to act on it is sinful.[/quote]

Only in your moral opinion.
[quote]Socrates writes: God does not make disorder or "tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil" of any kind.[/quote]
For anyone willing to reason beyond the simple judgment of “intrinsic moral evil”, God also doesn’t do anything to prevent or correct this “disorder”.
[quote]Socrates writes: A tendency towards moral evil does not come from God, but is a result of original sin.[/quote]
People do not have to acknowledge the legacy or the inheritance of original sin. They are perfectly capable of designing and coming up with their own “sins”.

[quote]Socrates writes: Maybe disgusting, but I'm actually making a very valid point.
It is well-documented that some people do in fact have very deep-rooted tendencies to pedophilia, zoophilia, and a host of other sexual perversions as well.[/quote]

Hmmm. Some people? Not exactly what a would call a valid point. I would be very interested in researching these well documented facts. Can you provide resources?

[quote]Socrates writes: They are the result of original sin.[/quote]
Homosexuality is not the result of any such superstition.

[blovedwolfofgod]

Hey, we medicate people with schizophrenia and make them better, why dont we medicate people who are gay too? I advocate the mental disorder position, but sadly, its politically taboo to look for a medication that would treat homosexuality. I think there would be a revolution, the capitol would be covered in rainbows and flowers, and the national guard would have to fight a home front insurgency.

[carrdero]

I wonder if there was any mention of Jesus curing homosexuality in the Bible. Certainly homosexuality must have been in practice during that time.

[Kitty]

[quote name='blovedwolfofgod' post='1447397' date='Jan 18 2008, 05:46 AM']Hey, we medicate people with schizophrenia and make them better, why dont we medicate people who are gay too? I advocate the mental disorder position, but sadly, its politically taboo to look for a medication that would treat homosexuality. I think there would be a revolution, the capitol would be covered in rainbows and flowers, and the national guard would have to fight a home front insurgency.[/quote]

Homosexuality's not an illness...

[blovedwolfofgod]

says who? it seems from media debate, nobody know's what it is. the best and most consistent definition is that it is a disordered action or disposition. mental illness is a disordered disposition, unless you choose to argue that hearing voices is normal.

[Kitty]

Well, according to most psychology websites, psychologists don't agree that it's a mental illness.

[quote][size=1]Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, mental disorder or an emotional problem. Over 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself,is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information. In the past the studies of gay, lesbian and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about these people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue.[/size][/quote]

[url="http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html"]http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html[/url]

Edited January 18, 2008 by Kitty