Iranian Boat Incident

[gamesfanatic04]

The Iranians have a fuzzy idea about what constitutes international waters, just ask the Brits.

[gamesfanatic04]

The Iranians have a fuzzy idea about what constitutes international waters, just ask the Brits.

[Aloysius]

true enough.

the point I'm trying to make is that in all likelihood, they didn't speedboat up to a US Warship and tell it it was going to blow up in 2 minutes. They wanted the identification numbers from it, seems like the radio got choppy and they were unable to see them clearly on the side of the boat so they went in for a closer look. some other radio (based upon the background noise, I think this is a fair assumption) tried to escalate the situation, it seems.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1444847' date='Jan 12 2008, 03:03 PM']true enough.

the point I'm trying to make is that in all likelihood, they didn't speedboat up to a US Warship and tell it it was going to blow up in 2 minutes. They wanted the identification numbers from it, seems like the radio got choppy and they were unable to see them clearly on the side of the boat so they went in for a closer look. some other radio (based upon the background noise, I think this is a fair assumption) tried to escalate the situation, it seems.[/quote]
I sorta doubt this. Those numbers are huge on the side of our ships, and as small as the Strait of Hormuz is(two aircraft carriers can just barely pass through side by side without crashing into each other) you should easily be able to spot them.

Oh, and cut your Gulf of Tonkin rhetoric. I know sailors who were on warships there at the time. They really were firing on us. Please spare the complaint that we lost Vietnam as well. Even if you want to view it that way it has nothing to with how it started.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Justin86

[Norseman82]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1444542' date='Jan 11 2008, 11:08 AM']The USS Cole was bombed using a small little raft that got too close. Regardless of the message the Iranians sent (or whoever sent), those fast boats should be more careful.[/quote]

I was going to bring this bit of history up as well. I'm glad to see that some people remember the lessons of history - and I'm sure it is in the mind of every front-line Navy commander since.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Norseman82

[KnightofChrist]

It would not seem logical to believe the radio transmissions did not come for the same source as those in command of the Iranian boats. The incident last as long as half an hour. There were radio transmissions with treats of bombing the US ships and boxes were thrown into the water by the Iranian boats.

[Aloysius]

It is the US Navy who has expressed questions over the source of the radio transmissions, not just me.

regarding the Gulf of Tonkin, In 2005 the NSA officially declassified a report which indicated that the Maddox fired first in the August 2 attack and that on August 4 there was no attack at all.

I'm not blaming the soldiers on the ships or anything, it is simply a well documented fact that this incident which incited conflict was indeed a misinterpreted situation.

[KnightofChrist]

Adm. William J. Fallon - "The voice is very strange. I don't know whether it came from the boats or one of the shore stations," "But the timing of it is pretty suspicious. In my mind, it is related to the maneuvers."

"It certainly doesn't sound like a third party that just happened to say something threatening at that moment,"

[Aloysius]

It is entirely plausible that someone with malicious intent monitoring their radio would have made such a threat.

The background noise is the key thing which convinces me that the transmission did not come from the boats. That indicates to me either that the US's video edited it in or that the transmission came from the land. Since I'd like the give those vessel commanders the benefit of the doubt (I wouldn't give the pentagon the benefit of the doubt as much as I'd give it to the actual commanders, they're entirely capable of deciding to fabricate something to provide excuses to escalate tensions with Iran), I think that it probably came from the shore.

But maybe it was related to the maneuvers. I don't know, none of us knows.

[KnightofChrist]

If the Evil lying US Government did not edit the tapes, it is logical that the radio transmissions and boats incident came from the Iranians. It would be illogical or highly coincidental for the boats to be dropping off objects in the waters near the US ships, whilst a voice on the radio is threating to blow those ships up. With the USS Cole in mind even without the audio it is still highly threating for the boats to be that close and dropping objects into the waters.

I would generally trust the Pentagon, more so over anything the Revolutionary Guard of Iran had to say.

[Aloysius]

I don't trust either completely, though I trust the Pentagon more than the Revolutionary Guard since it's still somewhat subject to American governmental transparency. Definitely trust the Pentagon more than, say, the CIA.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='gamesfanatic04' post='1444825' date='Jan 12 2008, 04:52 AM']The Iranians have a fuzzy idea about what constitutes international waters, just ask the Brits.[/quote]

I am British

[Justin86]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1445015' date='Jan 13 2008, 07:22 AM']regarding the Gulf of Tonkin, In 2005 the NSA officially declassified a report which indicated that the Maddox fired first in the August 2 attack and that on August 4 there was no attack at all.[/quote]
One single report doesn't mean anything. Look, I know people who were there. The single NSA report can kiss mine.

[rkwright]

I think the idea that the transmission was 'edited' in is too far fetched. The voice comes over the radio, says something, and whatever is said (I can't remember the exact phrase of the top of my head; something like 'we will blow you up in two minutes') is repeated back by our sailors. The US sailor repeating back what is said to him seems to contradict any theories about the sounds being edited in.

I do feel that in light of the USS Cole, if the Cpt. of the USS Hopper had opened fire he would have been justified in doing it.

[Deb]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1445176' date='Jan 13 2008, 01:07 AM']One single report doesn't mean anything. Look, I know people who were there. The single NSA report can kiss mine.[/quote]

Well, hate to tell you but, it is more than one single report. For example: Squadron Commander Stockton was flying over the Maddox on August 4th and he reported that the ship was just shooting at phantom targets, that there was nothing out there. (There were 16 planes in the air though, all ours) When he later became a pow he had a very hard time because he was so afraid that his knowledge that he knew the truth that there was no attack which kicked off the escalation of the war would come out when he was being tortured. He is just one of many oral reports of August 4th.

As someone who remembers that era very well and the lies that went with it, I wouldn't trust a single word that comes out of the mouths of anyone in THIS administration. Heck, in 2006, Bush and Blair were cooking up a plan to paint a U.S. plane to look like a U.N. plane and then fly low over areas of Iran hoping it would be shot down so that they could have an excuse to go in. Bush is a sicko and he is ultimately in charge of our military who take orders from him. People will look on anything that happens in those waters as another Tonkin. Ron Paul just referred to it as such also.
We were screwed then, we are being screwed now with Iraq and we don't need additional screwing with the U.S. trumping up a reason to go after Iran. Geez, if we want to get to where the terrorist are, maybe we should look to Pakistan and Syria. But then again, maybe we aren't really interested in terrorists, maybe we are more interested in oil.

I can see how a Naval vessel would be afraid of a speedboat though. They could be loaded with explosives. The first report I heard is that the people in the speedboats were "taunting" the U.S. ships. That must have been hard to take. I am sorry if my rant sounds like a rant but, I am so tired of greedy, power hungry men sucking the life out of the world for their own sick interests. Talk about a culture of death. We don't need any reasons to rush into more war.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Deb