Lord Philip Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 My Dear Catholic Brethren, I tell about war And great heroes Who first from the West's frontier Moved on by destiny Came to the Lavinian shores To Italy Men much travailed on sea and land By the powers of dissenters Because of the brooding anger of Satan Suffering much in war until they could found a revival And march the Lord into Latium Whence shall rise the new Catholic race The royal line of Peter And the high walls of Rome. --------- Forgive my poor re-working of C. Day Lewis' translation of Virgil's Aeneid, but I do need a song to cry the call to battle! My dear faithful brethren, hear my petition and take up arms with me! It is in recent times that I have left the Protestant rebellion and joined the legions of Christ in his true body, the Church. The Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults has been my weekly sustenance, and I long to receive my Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. The Church of God is my hope, my strength, and my fortress. The blessing of a baby has been given to my wife and I and the gracious gift of Baptism is what we seek for her in obedience to Mother Church. Yet to our great dismay, we find a Baptism class where the Church's teachings are undermined from every angle! No reverence for the Successor of St. Peter. No reverence for the Holy Magisterium. The Sacraments are described in a way that reduces them to mere psychological benefits. Original sin is dismissed as a misguided invention of "uneducated" early and medieval theologians. I am in a rage. I am scandalized. Yet my grief is most for the other people at the class who do not know any better, who listened to these lies and had the Catholic faith misrepresented to them! I knew that modernism was a problem (as it is everywhere), but now that it has touched so deep with its reprehensible claws, I feel the time has come to fight. Words have been of no avail. We must appeal to the highest authority (thank God that our Holy Father is orthodox...a result of divine Providence) and support them as they root out evil from the Church. Please forgive me. I try to make my posts at least somewhat rational, but I am enraged. Shall we sit by and watch the hippies steal our Church? I say no! God bless you all, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Christus vincit! Christus regnat! Christus imperat! Exaudi, Christe. Ecclesiae Sanctae Dei salus perpetua. Redemptor mundi, Tu illam adjuva! Sancta Maria: Tu illam adjuva! Sancte Joseph: Tu illam adjuva! Sancte Michael Tu illam adjuva! Gloria nostra, Misericordia nostra! Auxilium nostrum! Fortitudo nostra, Ar ma nostra invictissima! Murus noster inexpugnabilis! Defensio et exaltatio nostra! Lux, Via, et Vita nostra! Ipsi soli imperium, Laus et jubilatio per infinita saecula saeculorum. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 In other words I suggest fighting for the Faith! Keep notes and call these people out on their heresy. Speak with whoever is in charge (the pastor?). Write a letter to the bishop with documentation of the vile heresy and infamy of these impostures! Do whatever you have to do for the good of the Church and the salvation of souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Oh, I would also try to have conversations with other victims of the RCIA class and let them know that the formation they are receiving is flawed and try to hook them up with solid Catholic resources if they are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 But please remember .... [indent]Ps 4:3-4 [color="#FF0000"]Know that the LORD has set apart the godly for himself; the LORD will hear when I call to him. In your anger do not sin; when you are on your beds, search your hearts and be silent.[/color] [/indent]NIV [indent]Jer 10:23-25 [color="#FF0000"]I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps. Correct me, LORD, but only with justice — not in your anger , lest you reduce me to nothing. Pour out your wrath on the nations that do not acknowledge you, on the peoples who do not call on your name. For they have devoured Jacob; they have devoured him completely and destroyed his homeland. [/color]NIV[/indent] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Yes of course, the rule of charity is a given. My take is that I would prefer to stand before the judgment throne of Christ, bless His Name, guilty of jealous zeal for YHWH Sabaoth rather than of looking the other way while His flock was devoured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 What would the point of baptism be if there was no original sin? Is this class being taught by a Priest or a lay person? If a lay person, you need to talk to the Priest. If taught by the Priest, you need to, in writing, get this to your Bishop. This is not of the Catholic faith in any way. Congratulations on the birth of your little one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st-annes Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 You still use the word 'hippies'? You talk about reverence for the Church, but then you say you're at the end of your rope. With respect, I think I would stay anyway. You can always teach your child as well. You were in this church even before your child was born. How do you think people felt when they had to go to church during the reign of the Borgia popes and so forth? They had it much worse than all of us. The sacrament is the sacrament, whether the person talking about it really knows well or not. Maybe ask to talk to your bishop. I think that's part of what he's here to do, clarify and say what's what in tough issues like this. I remember being horribly upset because they changed the rules about Confirmation sponsors right before I was due to receive the sacrament. I had to tell my grandparents they were 'off the list.' It was a shock to them, it was a shock to me and I was so upset I almost didn't want to go through with it. I told my mother, what was wrong with my grandparents, they were fine up until just now? My mother told me I should still go through with it because it's what we were supposed to do, and you go to church not to satisfy what you think is justified, but to be with God. In other words, respect the office, if not the person. One of the nuns from the parish took my grandparents' place as my sponsor, and that was it. Even today, it still annoys me greatly that people in the last few years have started to hold hands during certain prayers, and raise their hands during others. I wish they wouldn't; but what am I going to do, grab them? It looks awfully Protestant to me, but in the absence of a canon law to parse the matter, it comes down to my opinion. So I just pray with hands clasped, as I've done most of my life, and I let other people worry about themselves. I would stay with the church, because Christ is still there, even if the human beings trying to teach about Him sometimes mess it up. Baptism is induction into the family of Christ. And Christ is still Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocent Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 [quote name='st-annes' post='1443659' date='Jan 9 2008, 09:43 PM']How do you think people felt when they had to go to church during the reign of the Borgia popes and so forth? They had it much worse than all of us.[/quote] I have often thought of that. I admire these people greatly, who stayed faithful to the faith when the Shepherd was not so good. I wonder what would happen if someone like that were to become the Pope again. Of course, Christ's promise that the gates of hell will not prevail would hold forever, but still, if such a thing as someone like the Borgia Pope in character ever being the pope again ever happened, the enemies of Catholicism would have a field day with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 [quote name='Lord Philip' post='1443564' date='Jan 9 2008, 12:52 AM']My Dear Catholic Brethren, I tell about war And great heroes Who first from the West's frontier Moved on by destiny Came to the Lavinian shores To Italy Men much travailed on sea and land By the powers of dissenters Because of the brooding anger of Satan Suffering much in war until they could found a revival And march the Lord into Latium Whence shall rise the new Catholic race The royal line of Peter And the high walls of Rome. --------- Forgive my poor re-working of C. Day Lewis' translation of Virgil's Aeneid, but I do need a song to cry the call to battle! My dear faithful brethren, hear my petition and take up arms with me! It is in recent times that I have left the Protestant rebellion and joined the legions of Christ in his true body, the Church. The Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults has been my weekly sustenance, and I long to receive my Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. The Church of God is my hope, my strength, and my fortress. The blessing of a baby has been given to my wife and I and the gracious gift of Baptism is what we seek for her in obedience to Mother Church. Yet to our great dismay, we find a Baptism class where the Church's teachings are undermined from every angle! No reverence for the Successor of St. Peter. No reverence for the Holy Magisterium. The Sacraments are described in a way that reduces them to mere psychological benefits. Original sin is dismissed as a misguided invention of "uneducated" early and medieval theologians. I am in a rage. I am scandalized. Yet my grief is most for the other people at the class who do not know any better, who listened to these lies and had the Catholic faith misrepresented to them! I knew that modernism was a problem (as it is everywhere), but now that it has touched so deep with its reprehensible claws, I feel the time has come to fight. Words have been of no avail. We must appeal to the highest authority (thank God that our Holy Father is orthodox...a result of divine Providence) and support them as they root out evil from the Church. Please forgive me. I try to make my posts at least somewhat rational, but I am enraged. Shall we sit by and watch the hippies steal our Church? I say no! God bless you all, Philip[/quote] Pray. Reflect. Take very detailed notes, and talk to the instructors after class. They simply could be repeating bad catechesis without realizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Philip Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 [quote name='st-annes' post='1443659' date='Jan 9 2008, 08:13 AM']You still use the word 'hippies'? You talk about reverence for the Church, but then you say you're at the end of your rope. With respect, I think I would stay anyway. You can always teach your child as well. You were in this church even before your child was born. How do you think people felt when they had to go to church during the reign of the Borgia popes and so forth? They had it much worse than all of us. The sacrament is the sacrament, whether the person talking about it really knows well or not. Maybe ask to talk to your bishop. I think that's part of what he's here to do, clarify and say what's what in tough issues like this. I remember being horribly upset because they changed the rules about Confirmation sponsors right before I was due to receive the sacrament. I had to tell my grandparents they were 'off the list.' It was a shock to them, it was a shock to me and I was so upset I almost didn't want to go through with it. I told my mother, what was wrong with my grandparents, they were fine up until just now? My mother told me I should still go through with it because it's what we were supposed to do, and you go to church not to satisfy what you think is justified, but to be with God. In other words, respect the office, if not the person. One of the nuns from the parish took my grandparents' place as my sponsor, and that was it. Even today, it still annoys me greatly that people in the last few years have started to hold hands during certain prayers, and raise their hands during others. I wish they wouldn't; but what am I going to do, grab them? It looks awfully Protestant to me, but in the absence of a canon law to parse the matter, it comes down to my opinion. So I just pray with hands clasped, as I've done most of my life, and I let other people worry about themselves. I would stay with the church, because Christ is still there, even if the human beings trying to teach about Him sometimes mess it up. Baptism is induction into the family of Christ. And Christ is still Christ.[/quote] You misunderstood my post. I have NO intention of leaving Holy Mother Church. I am not attacking the Church, I am defending her from flower-child, lewd, feminist, heretical hippies (yes...they are hippies and I am not afraid to use the word) who want to change the faith from Christ's institution to meaningless psycho-babble. I whole-heartedly agree with you on your objection to liturgical abuses, etc., and agree also that we must patiently and prayerfully remain faithful to the Church. Yet in the midst of outright deception, outright denial of the Sacred Magisterium's teaching, treating it as the product of uneducated men instead of divine inspiration, is an attack on the Church and for us who hold true to the faith the time has come to fight back. We have tried being patient, we have tried dialogue, we have tried ignoring it. To deny original sin, the truth of the Sacraments and the Holy Magisterium's authority to teach in the name of Christ is to deny the faith itself. If the faith is denied, then these people have no place in the pews let alone in positions of teaching. Just for everyone's information, this was not the priest teaching the class (thank God). It was a CONFIRMED former hippie, and a CONFIRMED former hippie and current feminist (who openly declares that women should be ordained to the priesthood and the episcopate). By the way, there is almost never any such thing as a "former" hippie. Thank you to those who have pointed me in practical directions: prayer is never a waste of time and speaking to the priest is a good first step. God bless, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Philip Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 [quote name='reyb' post='1443585' date='Jan 8 2008, 10:23 PM']But please remember .... [indent]Ps 4:3-4 [color="#FF0000"]Know that the LORD has set apart the godly for himself; the LORD will hear when I call to him. In your anger do not sin; when you are on your beds, search your hearts and be silent.[/color] [/indent]NIV [indent]Jer 10:23-25 [color="#FF0000"]I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps. Correct me, LORD, but only with justice — not in your anger , lest you reduce me to nothing. Pour out your wrath on the nations that do not acknowledge you, on the peoples who do not call on your name. For they have devoured Jacob; they have devoured him completely and destroyed his homeland. [/color]NIV[/indent][/quote] II Kings 23.4-7 4 The king ordered Hilkiah the high priest, the priests next in rank and the doorkeepers to remove from the temple of the LORD all the articles made for Baal and Asherah and all the starry hosts. He burned them outside Jerusalem in the fields of the Kidron Valley and took the ashes to Bethel. 5 He did away with the pagan priests appointed by the kings of Judah to burn incense on the high places of the towns of Judah and on those around Jerusalem—those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and moon, to the constellations and to all the starry hosts. 6 He took the Asherah pole from the temple of the LORD to the Kidron Valley outside Jerusalem and burned it there. He ground it to powder and scattered the dust over the graves of the common people. 7 He also tore down the quarters of the male shrine prostitutes, which were in the temple of the LORD and where women did weaving for Asherah. Leviticus 26.6-8 7 You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. 8 Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you. I Kings 18.40 40 Then Elijah commanded them, "Seize the prophets of Baal. Don't let anyone get away!" They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there. When it comes to defending the faith, God does not call us to be bashful. He calls us to rise up and defend the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spamity Calamity Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Lord Phillip. I totally dig your enthusiasm and welcome back to Catholicism! (Though I myself have only just begun re-discovering the greatness of the Catholic Church I still say welcome!) Can you give some more details? So this is an RCIA class taught by lay-people? Who put those people in there to teach? What exactly are they saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Philip, All I can say is I feel you bro. Modernism is the worst heresy that has ever struck the Church and most Catholics aren't aware we live in a time of great error. I don't know what to do about it myself so I can't offer much advice but don't be content, we need to fight. Hopefully God will raise great Saints that will steer us back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 [quote name='Lord Philip' post='1443701' date='Jan 9 2008, 01:35 PM']You misunderstood my post. I have NO intention of leaving Holy Mother Church. I am not attacking the Church, I am defending her from flower-child, lewd, feminist, heretical hippies (yes...they are hippies and I am not afraid to use the word) who want to change the faith from Christ's institution to meaningless psycho-babble. I whole-heartedly agree with you on your objection to liturgical abuses, etc., and agree also that we must patiently and prayerfully remain faithful to the Church. Yet in the midst of outright deception, outright denial of the Sacred Magisterium's teaching, treating it as the product of uneducated men instead of divine inspiration, is an attack on the Church and for us who hold true to the faith the time has come to fight back. We have tried being patient, we have tried dialogue, we have tried ignoring it. To deny original sin, the truth of the Sacraments and the Holy Magisterium's authority to teach in the name of Christ is to deny the faith itself. If the faith is denied, then these people have no place in the pews let alone in positions of teaching. Just for everyone's information, this was not the priest teaching the class (thank God). It was a CONFIRMED former hippie, and a CONFIRMED former hippie and current feminist (who openly declares that women should be ordained to the priesthood and the episcopate). By the way, there is almost never any such thing as a "former" hippie. Thank you to those who have pointed me in practical directions: prayer is never a waste of time and speaking to the priest is a good first step. God bless, Philip[/quote] As a former hippie I would have to disagree with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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