Fox News Presidential Forum Facade

[Aloysius]

notice the signs outside the windows as fox news was asking post debate questions tonight? "Fox News is Unfair" and "Ron Paul" signs filled the windows.

And that's not just a fringe group of people complaining about not being allowed in. The New Hampshire GOP party has officially chastized Fox News for its absolutely unfair actions and has pulled their support for this facade of a presidential forum.

What Fox News did tonight was absolutely undemocratic and ridiculous. Even Brit Hume and Greta Van Sustren were commenting on the night after the Iowa primaries that they should reconsider letting him in.

[Dismas]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1442830' date='Jan 6 2008, 09:49 PM']notice the signs outside the windows as fox news was asking post debate questions tonight? "Fox News is Unfair" and "Ron Paul" signs filled the windows.

And that's not just a fringe group of people complaining about not being allowed in. The New Hampshire GOP party has officially chastized Fox News for its absolutely unfair actions and has pulled their support for this facade of a presidential forum.

What Fox News did tonight was absolutely undemocratic and ridiculous. Even Brit Hume and Greta Van Sustren were commenting on the night after the Iowa primaries that they should reconsider letting him in.[/quote]
Oddly, this may give Ron Paul more exposure than the debate itself.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1442834' date='Jan 6 2008, 10:02 PM']Oddly, this may give Ron Paul more exposure than the debate itself.[/quote]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZenB1s2rKDI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZenB1s2rKDI[/url]

Yep, notice the signs in the background as Fat Frank does his opinion steering group.

[CatholicCid]

Was Paul in NH? If so, How'd he do?

[Theologian in Training]

If you saw The Simpsons tonight, you will understand this reference

"Ralph Wiggum for president!"

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Im definitely down for Ron Paul. If he makes it he has my vote hands down.

[Didymus]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' post='1442882' date='Jan 6 2008, 11:46 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZenB1s2rKDI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZenB1s2rKDI[/url]

Yep, notice the signs in the background as Fat Frank does his opinion steering group.[/quote]

yeah that was ridiculous. I hope Romney falls like a rock just because of that...

[CatholicCid]

He ended up polling 8% or so from NH.

[Ash Wednesday]

I don't think I can handle four plus years of Hillary's cackle. If she wins I'll be really glad to be in England.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1443593' date='Jan 9 2008, 01:36 AM']He ended up polling 8% or so from NH.[/quote]
yeah, that's really sad. I can't believe Guiliani beat him.

the thing is, Paul's the only president I see as likely to stop the country from totally collapsing economically from the expenses of social security and the wars. He's the only one who would go and actually try to cut spending. I pray that in the likely event of him not getting the Republican Nomination, he will launch a third party run. he's got the momentum and the recognition to potentially take a good portion of the vote.

honestly, I can't support any of the republicans or any of the democrats. and I actually am not sure which side an independently running Paul would spoil against anyway... he'd draw from dems, repubs, and indepenedents. but I will not vote for any of the other candidates, they're all big government spenders. And the country simply can't afford it.

[Didymus]

it seems that whenever the topic of a debate goes to health care, Paul starts talking about the war again, and how if we didn't have one trillion dollars there, then we could use it for our health care crisis.

I think that is really weak. If he's so conservative, then why isn't he fighting more for a free market type health care system.

[Aloysius]

I think you missed something. Paul has said a lot about healthcare. He talks about getting rid of restrictions that stand in the way of doctors and patients actually coming to agreements over payments, saying that a doctor ought to be able to enter into a private contract with his patient independent of insurance companies and lawyers and such. he wants to get the government out of healthcare and have things be more free-market based.

Basic Ad: [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENfMexgorp4&feature=related"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENfMexgorp4&feature=related[/url]

More in-depth interview:
part 1: [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=lWLwJyc0ZqI"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=lWLwJyc0ZqI[/url]
part 2: [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=khJ6lS9utl8"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=khJ6lS9utl8[/url]

I did notice in the recent ABC New Hampshire Debate, Fred Thompson tried to twist Paul's words to sound like he supported government. The problem is that Paul doesn't rudely interrupt as much as the other candidates, and the moderator doesn't go out of his way to give Paul more time, so often he doesn't end up with a good response when someone tries to twist his ideas.

[url="http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/health-freedom/"]http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/health-freedom/[/url]
Under his writings you can find the topic of Free Market Medicine.

But his opposition to the FDA is also a great thing for health.

Here you see him directing that to the economic issues such as the war: [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLauMl7iXlM"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLauMl7iXlM[/url]

I really wish Paul would be more aggressive like the other candidates who rudely interrupt in childish ways, Paul got cut off trying to answer Fred Thompson by saying "then we wouldn't HAVE to provide everyone with health-care"... he was talking about how health-care prices are high because of the monetary problems, which include the spending on the war. But he didn't direct the question that way, the question was worded that way.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1443622' date='Jan 9 2008, 02:49 AM']it seems that whenever the topic of a debate goes to health care, Paul starts talking about the war again, and how if we didn't have one trillion dollars there, then we could use it for our health care crisis.

I think that is really weak. If he's so conservative, then why isn't he fighting more for a free market type health care system.[/quote]


He is not conservative he is libertarian, running as a republican.

[Aloysius]

He's what is known as a "paleo-conservative". He is what conservatives used to be. He is simply not a neo-conservative.

that said, Ronald Reagan often referred to himself as libertarian, he said that libertarianism is the heart of the conservative movement.

Reason Magazine interviewed Reagan once:
[quote]REASON: Governor Reagan, you have been quoted in the press as saying that you’re doing a lot of speaking now on behalf of the philosophy of conservatism and libertarianism. Is there a difference between the two?

REAGAN: If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don’t each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are travelling the same path.[/quote]

Now, Paul is of the same school as Reagan on the subject, he wants government to maintain order and defend liberty, he doesn't want it to excessively spend and babysit the people.

Neo-conservatives have totally betrayed these principals. Whereas when Reagan made these comments about libertarianism and conservativism, the conservative party was talking about abolishing the Department of Education, the neo-conservative movement has exponentially increased the size and power of it. And there are many many more things that could be cited... neo-conservatives are about big government where they want it to be big, small government where they want it to be small.

In any event, the main issue of this thread is that Fox News acted in a completely inappropriate way. The New Hampshire Republican Party made that clear. Fred Thompson was included and Ron Paul wasn't, yet Ron Paul beat Fred Thompson in New Hampshire. This was supposed to be the NH Debate, they should have based who participated upon who was polling what in New Hampshire.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1443618' date='Jan 9 2008, 04:27 PM']yeah, that's really sad. I can't believe Guiliani beat him.[/quote]
Paul got creamed in NH only because of bad campaigning. That was a state that should have been in his pocket for pete's sake. There is simply no way he can ever win the nomination.