Dave Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 So are you saying that the Catholic church alone holds the keys to understanding scripture? I hope Laudate doesn't mind me answering, but yes, as a matter of fact, it does. Under the Old Covenant, it was said, "The lips of the priest shall keep knowledge, and they shall seek the law at this mouth" (Malachi 2:7). Under the New Covenant, Christ sent his Church to teach men and transferred to it the authority that the priests of the Old Covenant had. We can and must read the Bible, as ignorance of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ. But the Bible also indicates that a divinely appointed guide is needed to get through the more difficult to understand passages. And there are many! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ok...........let it be known to all that this thread is officially now about sola scriptura. if u wish to comment further on ex-catholic testimony or silverbug's faith journey, please start another thread. when doing so, please note that the new thread is an extension of topics presented in this one, and quote relevent info from this thread if necessary. thank you, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 my bad ya'll...I'll start a new thread. Thanks Silverbug for sharing your testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 my bad ya'll...I'll start a new thread. Thanks Silverbug for sharing your testimony. m. sigga, it looks like dave has already created one. just a quick heads up ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Acts 17:11 These Jews were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all willingness and examined the scriptures daily to determine whether these things were so. Once again the situations in acts where pre New Testament writing. The word became flesh. They recieved the word. Could it be the body and blood(communion) and knowledge of Jesus Christ through the apostles? Examine the scriptures Daily. Wow. To my amazement again these people had the books of the new Testament during the time of Book of Acts. Could they have been studying old Testament scriptures to compare the prophecies to match it to what happened to Christ. Or where they reading the Pauline letters already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 So are you saying that the Catholic church alone holds the keys to understanding scripture? Some things in Scripture are clear enough that anyone can understand them, without recourse to an infallible interpreter (e.g. faith is a necessary condition for salvation, Christ was God, Christ died for our sins, baptism saves, etc.). However, there are also many other issues which are hard to undersand, and thus require the infallible interpretation of the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbug Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 That is why we were promised the Holy Spirit as the one who will reveal the Scriptures to us, NOT a man-made church. 1 john 2:27-28 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you all things, and what he teaches is true – it is not a lie. So continue in what he has taught you, and continue to live in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 That is why we were promised the Holy Spirit as the one who will reveal the Scriptures to us, NOT a man-made church. 1 john 2:27-28 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you all things, and what he teaches is true – it is not a lie. So continue in what he has taught you, and continue to live in Christ. yes, but Protestantism in and of itself proves that the Holy Spirit of wisdom and truth is not given to all people. afterall, if we are ALL promised this gift, then why do we disagree? if a lutheran is "inspired by the Holy Spirit" in his belief, and an episcopalian is "inspired by the Holy Spirit" in his belief, then why do they disagree. is the Holy Spirit not a Spirit of Truth? but, w/in the many, many denominations within protestantism, it appears the Spirit is contradicting Himself! of course, this can not be. therefore we are left to determine: who really is inspired by the Holy Spirit? i say the Catholic Church is. why? well, for one, John is writing here to the earliest Christians of the day, and only Catholicism has doctrine comparable to the earliest recorded Christian testimony. would you like proof? go here. secondly, only the Catholic Church has propogated and perpetuated the teachings of the Apostles from the very beginning through Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church. "Whoever hears you, hears me" Jesus said to them. unfortunately, i'm at work so i don't have time to elaborate on this any further. for now, please go here and here for the scriptural proof. i hope this helps.......pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 1 john 2:27-28 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you all things, and what he teaches is true – it is not a lie. So continue in what he has taught you, and continue to live in Christ. While your at it go ahead and read the rest of John. Try Chapter 3 or 6. In chapter 6 What do you need for Life? Not a bible but what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 That is why we were promised the Holy Spirit as the one who will reveal the Scriptures to us, NOT a man-made church. Really? Are you saying Protestant or Non Denominational churches are not Man Made? Yes Peter was a Man. So I guess that makes the church built on a man by Christ. But you once again have moved off Sola scriptura which cannot be proved by the Bible yet the Church can. Prove Sola Scriptura. Or bible alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 That is why we were promised the Holy Spirit as the one who will reveal the Scriptures to us, NOT a man-made church. 1 john 2:27-28 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you all things, and what he teaches is true – it is not a lie. So continue in what he has taught you, and continue to live in Christ. silverbug, name me one protestant denomination that can trace their origin back to the very apostles. it simply can not be done. all of protestantism does however trace itself back to one man: Martin Luther. you may say in reply, "well, Luther was inspired by the Holy Spirit in his new beliefs." but, this same man has a documented reverence for Mary, even holding to her Perpetual Virginity. so, if this is not what u believe about Mary, then u may want to think twice about invoking the Holy Spirit on his behalf. which, of course, brings you back to the present conundrum of explaining how protestantism is not man-made, as well as your previous conundrum of explaining how so many protestants are "inspired by the Holy Spirit," yet so many of them disagree--even on fundamental issues like salvation! two puzzles, for which there is only one answer..... pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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