Silverbug Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Wow--it never ceases to amaze me. No matter how many people were raised Catholic, and then leave the church, the replies are the same. "testimonies like this freakin amaze me. every time i read one of these i see how the author was blatantly ignorant of Catholic teaching."-Phatcatholic "they believe in Sola Scriptura. Everything they are saying, believe is not even true. No wonder this guy (and the site) is kinda off......no way off. "-jmjtina "I don't really beieve that this "testimony" is authentic."-oik "These ex-Catholics who say they never knew God personally while in the Catholic Church fail to see that that's their own fault and not the Church's! "-Dave "How sad. Another person who never actually paid attention"'-cmotherofpirl "the people are almost always totally ignorant of Catholicism"-Laudate_Dominum If this same guy had posted the opposite testimony, and he had"found the light" that the Catholic Church was the true church, everyone would be praising his name. But suddenly, when he turns away, then he had NO CLUE what he was talking about in the first place. The amount of catholics testimonies i have seen about them coming out of the Catholic Church, you guys must be the only "enlightened ones" that understand what the "real" meaning of the Catholic faith is. I find it hard to believe that so many are so quick to judge, and demean, and disregard someone. I have read, on many different message boards, and websites, MANY people from all walks of life, all areas of the country, with the same story about turning from the church--but then all of them must not have known what their religion really was, or fully understood it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Well, Silverbug, you may not like hearing that those who leave the Church often do so because they're ignorant, but it's true! They may never have cracked open of Bible, or their parents may not have been good examples of living the faith. These people become easy prey for non-Catholics, and when they hear that Catholics worship Mary, that they worship the Pope, that they believe they have to work their way to heaven, that they think they're resacrificing Christ each day in the Mass, and lots of other false ideas, they fall for them hook, line, and sinker! None of what we've said is judgmental; it's just the truth, and the truth hurts. Also, judging from what you've said, Silverbug, I'm getting the impression that you're an ex-Catholic. Is that impression correct or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Wow--it never ceases to amaze me. No matter how many people were raised Catholic, and then leave the church, the replies are the same. "testimonies like this freakin amaze me. every time i read one of these i see how the author was blatantly ignorant of Catholic teaching."-Phatcatholic "they believe in Sola Scriptura. Everything they are saying, believe is not even true. No wonder this guy (and the site) is kinda off......no way off. "-jmjtina "I don't really beieve that this "testimony" is authentic."-oik "These ex-Catholics who say they never knew God personally while in the Catholic Church fail to see that that's their own fault and not the Church's! "-Dave "How sad. Another person who never actually paid attention"'-cmotherofpirl "the people are almost always totally ignorant of Catholicism"-Laudate_Dominum If this same guy had posted the opposite testimony, and he had"found the light" that the Catholic Church was the true church, everyone would be praising his name. But suddenly, when he turns away, then he had NO CLUE what he was talking about in the first place. The amount of catholics testimonies i have seen about them coming out of the Catholic Church, you guys must be the only "enlightened ones" that understand what the "real" meaning of the Catholic faith is. I find it hard to believe that so many are so quick to judge, and demean, and disregard someone. I have read, on many different message boards, and websites, MANY people from all walks of life, all areas of the country, with the same story about turning from the church--but then all of them must not have known what their religion really was, or fully understood it. Well, considering the vast majority of these "testimonies" I've ever come accross do not authentically represent Catholicism I'd say these are valid reactions. In case you aren't aware there has been a mass exodus of protestants into the Catholic Church going on for quite some time. I know of hundreds of highly trained, knowledgable former protestant ministers. I know of ministers who have converted with their whole congregation etc.. And if you read the majority of these testimonies you will notice a huge differece. These are not derrogatory, inflammatory and ignorant slams against protestantism, but the testimony of honest, truth-seeking individuals who were led by God and by reason to the Catholic Church and were not rejected protestantism out of resentment or any other emotional reasons or reasons of ignorance. Quite the contrary, most of the ministers resisted this conversion as much as possible because it was a huge sacrifice and cost much persecution for them to become Catholic. It's annoying and painful to read testimony after testimony of people who were never living the Faith acting as if they know all about it. If someone is truly living the Catholic spiritual life and liturgical life they would never be satisfied with protestantism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Blaze Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hello SIlverbug!! May the peace and love of Christ be with you brother, or sister. I hope you stick around here at phatmass and learn about Catholic beliefs as well as beliefs from many educated protestants that post here, so as you won't make judgements based on first impressions as well. You'll find many conversions stories here as well, from protestantism to Catholicism. I have experienced many services from several denominations, loved them all. However, rekindling my faith a few years ago, I've continued to actually learn what the Church truly teaches, and I wouldn't exchange my conviction in Christ for anything. I'm sure you are equally strong in your convictions, we can grow and learn together in our faith journey.....hope to see you around here! Pax Christi, ~S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Wow--it never ceases to amaze me. No matter how many people were raised Catholic, and then leave the church, the replies are the same. May the love of Christ be with you Silverbug. The problem we have is not people leaving the Church for legitimate reasons, because that's on them. The problem is when people leave the Church without even knowing anything about Catholic theology in the first place. If they want to leave the Church because they like the "fellowship" in other Churches, then so be it--just don't start misrepresenting the Church you left. From his testimony, it's obvious he didn't have a firm understanding of Catholic theology, so why does he try to pass it off as if he did? That's the problem we have. If a Baptist converted to Catholicism, and then started spreading lies about his former Baptist faith, I wouldn't have much respect for him either. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Silverbug, i would also like to add something to the comments that have already been made. you seem to have the impression that we are out to judge and demean every former Catholic that is at there. this is just not true. we would not even know about these people, nor would we care to comment on them, if they were not actively working against our faith and attempting to bring others away from our Church. what one person does out of ignorance is his own fault. but when he tries to bring others down that similar road, that's when we have objection. and we definitely have objection when they devote entire ministries to "saving" catholics and spreading falsehoods about our faith. would you like it if someone left your church and then started up a ministry so that they could tell other members of your church falsehoods about what you believed? also, their is a distinction, however minute, that must be made and clarified here. i am largely speaking for myself here--although i may speak for others as well--when i say that i call these ex-catholics "ignorant" NOT for the mere fact that they left the Catholic Church, but b/c these people show thru their testimonies that they never did know what Catholicism teaches about very basic doctrines. not every ex-catholic is ignorant. i'm sure there are very intelligent people who have left the Church as well. but, when we read some of these testimonies and find out that people left b/c they thought they had to work for their salvation, or b/c they didn't know how to be forgiven, or b/c they had never read the bible before, we have to take objection--b/c these and similar claims are just outright fallacies!! a big mission of ours here at phatmass is to teach people the TRUTH about Catholicism. so, when we see these types of testimonies we cringe. afterall, many protestants look at ex-catholics as if they are "experts" in Catholicism, like these people had the "inside-track" on what catholicism was "really" like b/c they were Catholic for so long. so these protestants are quick to accept whatever garbage these people say about our Church. and as a person that fights for the Truth of Catholicism, i can't stand for this. if you were in a similar situation, i doubt you would either. put yourself in our shoes. it is an enlightening experience..... pax christi and WELCOME TO PHATMASS! :D phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbug Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Where to begin? First off, to answer Dave, yes I am an EX-Catholic. I was raised by Catholic parents, attended Catholic school until 8th grade, was baptized,etc. Laudate--there may be an exodus of people to the catholic church, but i havent seen any evidence of it. According to worldwide census data: 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year. 52% of Americans identified themselves as Protestant. 24.5% are Roman Catholic. 14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase from only 8% in 1990). 1.3% are Jewish. 0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam. The fastest growing religion (in terms of percentage) is Wicca. It went from 8,000 in 1990 to 134,000 in 2001. Their numbers of adherents are doubling about every 30 months. The average worldwide growth rate of all Christian-branded religions are: Pentecostals + 5.8% Evangelicals + 3.1% All Protestants + 1.0% Roman Catholics - 1.0% These numbers are from a world census organization-one of the NPO's I know the growth rate of Catholicism is almost to a standstill--the only growth it is receiving is due to the fact that any newborn baptized catholic is also counted. All of the other Christian religions do not count newborns but only those that make a concious choice to join said organization. So the numbers above are adjusted for population growth. Sammy--thanks for the kind words--i think i will stick around for a while. Dust--understood. I agree with your comments--i too believe if you leave one church then start slamming it it is wrong. However, since I left the Catholic church, does that mean i did not have an understanding of what it is? I have studied it in detail--and do not agree with its tenets (AND BEFORE ANYONE STARTS ASKING WHICH ONES AND WHY) are my opinions going to be summarily dismissed as someone who doesnt have a clue about the Catholic faith? Phatcatholic-Quick question--if i were to tell others of my beliefs and how they differ from the Catholics, and that causes someone to join my church--is THAT working against your faith? I dont mean going to someone and soliciting them door to door, but just in idle conversation, someone asks ME "hey brother, why do you believe the way you do?" One last question to start this feeding frenzy off right--define "protestant" because i dont think we mean the same thing when I say that. PS--if we are really gonna start some kind of interfaith posting here please please please lets go one topic at a time:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 We like one topic at a time too. lol Just start a new thread with what you'd be willing to discuss with us. I'm curious to know why you left the Church, and more importantly, what you have found in Protestantism that you couldn't find in Catholicism. Your opinions won't be dismissed as someone who doesn't have a clue about Catholicism--although we'll no doubt clarify Church teaching if you present a distorted view of it. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Phatcatholic-Quick question--if i were to tell others of my beliefs and how they differ from the Catholics, and that causes someone to join my church--is THAT working against your faith? I dont mean going to someone and soliciting them door to door, but just in idle conversation, someone asks ME "hey brother, why do you believe the way you do?" Why must one use the Catholic Church as a tool to explain their own beliefs? If they're not Catholic, then why must they use Catholic theology to explain what they believe? By doing so, of course it is working against our faith. I'll freely admit it. When I explain to someone the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, I am working against Protestant theology. Let's cut out the fluff. If you are not Catholic, and are telling people why you are not Catholic, then you are working against the Catholic faith. Vice versa with a Catholic explaining away Protestantism. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Siverbug, so not to treat Protestants as a universal umbrella group, if you don't mind me asking, to which church or community did you leave the Catholic Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbug Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 OK first-Dust, i brought up that last comment about talking to others about or against Catholicism in response to Phatmass' comments on his last post. I just wanted to get it in no uncertain terms if comparing my beliefs against the Catholic Church would be interpreted as an attack or a discussion--ill take it as the former. Let's cut out the fluff. If you are not Catholic, and are telling people why you are not Catholic, then you are working against the Catholic faith-Dust so these protestants are quick to accept whatever garbage these people say about our Church-phatcatholic this is ok--i know where we stand, thanks for the cander. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm curious to know why you left the Church, and more importantly, what you have found in Protestantism that you couldn't find in Catholicism. -Dust Siverbug, so not to treat Protestants as a universal umbrella group, if you don't mind me asking, to which church or community did you leave the Catholic Church?-m.sigga I left the Church some years ago, simply from rebellion--not against the Catholic Church at that time, but just plain old rebellion of youth. I began to gravitate back in my mid 20's; and with a renewed sense of purpose and belonging i began to investigate the faith with fresh eyes. Not as an obedient boy doing what he is told, but as a man seeking God. As i searched the scriptures, and applied the Catholic faith to the bible, i did not see how they were the same(YES--ill get into what specifically in a sec). I began to go to different Churches, and to explore their beliefs. I never felt quite as "at home" unless I was at a real Mass though. Then I met She who was to become my wife. And she was seeking like I was, although her background was Mormon (NO- I did not become a Mormon). We began to seek together, until we found our church. It was called New Life Center-a Foursquare Gospel Church. Just the feeling i got when I walked inside--It was like walking into a HUG. There is a foursquare website--i dont know if i can provide links here. Suffice it to say I found my spiritual home and have never left or looked back. OK-now on to the main course. lets do one thing at a time. Well start with the Bible. I found 2 Timothy 3:16, and Acts 17:11 These told me to use the Bible to guide me and my life--AND to use it as a way of checking on what i was being taught-to be sure that what i was being taught by priests/pastors/ministers was indeed according to God. Any problems so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 silverbug, first off, let me say that i appreciate the systematic way in which you write, but replying to each individual's post and be keeping the discussion on one topic. this is very helpful in "interfaith dialogue" and i thank you for it. that said, i would like to address your question: Phatcatholic-Quick question--if i were to tell others of my beliefs and how they differ from the Catholics, and that causes someone to join my church--is THAT working against your faith? I dont mean going to someone and soliciting them door to door, but just in idle conversation, someone asks ME "hey brother, why do you believe the way you do?" i think that telling others what you believe is ok. i think it is when you accentuate how those beliefs "differ from Catholicism" that you step into the gray area. even a scenario like that is ok, if for example, you say, "Catholics believe that the Bible, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church have equal authority, whereas i believe that the Bible is the only authority"--that statement is ok. but, when you misrepresent Catholicism, for example, by saying, "I had to leave Catholicism b/c i didn't like how they worshipped Mary" that would be objectionable. so, essentially, it is all about how you present Catholicism to others. these testimonies from ex-priests often fall into that "objectionable" category i defined above. if you have any similar misunderstandings about Catholicism, hopefully we can charitable and honestly correct them for you. no one is here to attack you silver, i promise. we are here to educate, support, and defend. hopefully your time here will be edifying. i, for one, am glad that you are here in my next post, i will comment on the role of the Bible and the scripture verses you presented. pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 The amount of catholics testimonies i have seen about them coming out of the Catholic Church, you guys must be the only "enlightened ones" that understand what the "real" meaning of the Catholic faith is. HI! welcome to phatmass!! :D i would recommend reading surprise by truth if you haven't heard or read any conversion stories. real stories of ppl coming back home, former catholics, protestants, muslims, athiests and jews. you name it! theres a whole series of them. surprised by truth 1, 2, 3, 4 click here to order click here just wanted to share with you those links because these stories are GREAT! God bless, +JMJ ps. here at phatmass we got lots of conversion stories too! :D so you see, their there, you just got to know where to look! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 silverbug, first, your quote, which will be the topic of this post: Well start with the Bible. I found 2 Timothy 3:16, and Acts 17:11 These told me to use the Bible to guide me and my life--AND to use it as a way of checking on what i was being taught-to be sure that what i was being taught by priests/pastors/ministers was indeed according to God. Any problems so far? actually, i was thinking and i realized that the problems, if any, may depend on some clarification on your part. afterall, Catholics too believe that the Bible can and does guide us in our life and that if we do hear something that is anti-biblical that it should not be trusted. however, if you are using these verses to prove that the Bible should be the SOLE rule of faith, then we would have a disagreement. since i do not want to assume that this is what you believe (which we call Sola Scriptura--"Bible Only"), i will wait on your clarification before i address the verses you cited. i look forward to hearing from you. pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbug Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 PhatCaholic- Catholics too believe that the Bible can and does guide us in our life and that if we do hear something that is anti-biblical that it should not be trusted. however, if you are using these verses to prove that the Bible should be the SOLE rule of faith, then we would have a disagreement. Then it would appear that we shall begin with a disagreement. Sola Scriptura is indeed my belief-- (service)--bounce over to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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