Hard As Nails "catholic" Ministry

[Norseman82]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1436071' date='Dec 19 2007, 10:00 AM']Dr Phil does, and he's endorsed by Oprah, which is almost as good as being endorsed by Jesus.[/quote]

Have you been sparring without headgear?????

[quote name='dUSt' post='1436158' date='Dec 19 2007, 01:15 PM']I truly hope that he works within the church and not against it. It bothers me about how he talks about the "institutional church" not being his role model. For some reason, it comes off very anti-religion.

I can see how this ministry could come (if not already) dangerously close to becoming "non-denominational", and I pray that this doesn't happen.[/quote]

That is why the alarm bells went off in my head when he said he was "chosen by God" to do this.

"Chosen by God" + working with the Church = good, like St. Francis of Assisi.

"Chosen by God" + thinking you are above the chucrh = bad, egomaniac , dangerous cult leader, like Jim Jones; or else look at Martin Luther.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1436113' date='Dec 19 2007, 11:55 AM']Most of these kids NEVER had someone in authority stand up to them in their lives. They don't understand the consequences of their actions, whether it be cutting, bullying, eating disorders (both starvation and overeating), or suicidal thoughts. NO ONE told these kids "no" when they were young so at the age of 15-18 they are spoiled brats. They don't know that these diseases could actually KILL them and when they want to die they don't understand that death is really final. Its a sick, depressive game.
They have had people go "oh honey, its ok, we'll take you to the doctor and make you all better. We love you, here's some candy and a wii."
Over indulged, over bullied, over sexually exposed teens. In many cultures an 18 year old is capable of raising their own family. Just over a generation ago this was true in our culture. Now an 18 year old is virtually helpless. They are expected to continue school for the next 4-8 years and not start a family until after that.

This guy kicks kids in the verbal butt, and don't dare tell me that most kids don't need that. And he has a good sense of who does and dosn't need it. He dosn't attack the truly vulnerable (at least in my experiance)

I don't like his style because I am turned off by lone wolf leaders who convert and lead solely by themselves. Give me Lifeteen or anything where one person isn't making the decisions for an entire ministry, but not this. While he preaches and lives the Catholic faith its too easy for a single preacher to become his own downfall and take others with him. Currently, he is a great guy. I'm too skeptical to believe that it will stay like that forever, though.[/quote]

I agree that there are kids that need the "kick in the butts", but you don't START with yelling and screaming; that should be reserved only for the hard-core cases (like the fornicating bums who have contests to see who can have sex with the most girls, or potty-mouthed mean-spirited cliquish snobs). Many of the kids with problems are not overindulged but are, in fact, probably overstressed because they live in an environment in which they have to be the adult in the house due to parental substance abuse, broken marriages, and the like, or they themselves are abused, and the last thing an abused kid needs is more abuse.

One size does not fit all, and one needs the wisdom to know when it doesn't fit.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Norseman82

[rkwright]

I read the 'ministers' bios, and 2-3 have considered entering the Fransican Friars of the Renewal. They should have an orthodox teaching and upbringing, but I couldn't see if they are orthodox now.

[prose]

We should ALL email them and tell them to come here...

[God Conquers]

Like I said, I know the type, and my 95% gut feeling is that they are awesome.

And my gut feelings are better than most people's.


... because I've got more of it.

[jiyoung]

The whole thing doesn't seem very pastoral to me...Norseman's right, that's not a one-size-fit-all approach and I personally would feel turned off by it. We have a bad enough reputation with the "Catholic guilt," we don't need some guy yelling at us to intensify it. Yes, there are people who need this who have no sense of shame or guilt, but that's not everybody.

[dUSt]

I doubt that his entire ministry is based off yelling at people.

[prose]

That sure would give the guy a sore throat. Maybe they take turns berating?

[God Conquers]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1436716' date='Dec 20 2007, 06:05 PM']I doubt that his entire ministry is based off yelling at people.[/quote]

hahahahahahahahaha

"Hard as Yells Ministry"

"Yells as Nails Ministry"


Gift of the unstrained voice.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1436716' date='Dec 20 2007, 06:05 PM']I doubt that his entire ministry is based off yelling at people.[/quote]

As I said above (and was ignored) he's VERY good at reading people. Of course the yelling gets videoed. Its far more intresting

[Krush2k2]

FYI-an hour long special on this guy and his ministry is on HBO today at 3pm central standard time

[jmjtina]

Still trying to learn about them.

Anyone heard of them before HBO?

Also, TV can warp and twist the truth most of the time. What comes out of HBO we need to remember to take with a grain of salt.

[Nathan]

Well, I saw the documentary and while I have mixed feelings, Fatica really does seem to believe that he is doing what God put him here to do. Maybe he's the real deal. How many saints are there who have been in his situation -- doing something new, not-quite-understood, controversial? Lots. Time will tell in the case of Hard as Nails.

I just hope he keeps himself and his ministry under the authority of the Church, even if one or two bishops might be wrong about him right now. He should keep doing what he is doing, but moreover [i]obey[/i].

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1436860' date='Dec 21 2007, 04:07 AM']As I said above (and was ignored) he's VERY good at reading people. Of course the yelling gets videoed. Its far more intresting[/quote]

Does he claim to be very good at reading people himself? That can be a dangerous claim - I've seen it being used to manipulate people who genuinely believe that the speaker knows them better than they know themselves.

This may not be the case with this man, but in my experience people who are truly perceptive are more aware of how much they don't know as opposed to what they do know.

[jmjtina]

obedience is definitely more important than right or wrong, even the saints will say that.

I think when you love Jesus and the Catholic Church, you can't help but to obey your superiors.

I will definitely keep this ministry in my prayers, but I wish I could see exactly what they do. Like APeX ministries has a whole show on CD so you can check them out before you book them, I wonder if HANM has one?

Edited January 4, 2008 by jmjtina