Fallen Away Catholics And Outsiders...

[PapaHilarious]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1436041' date='Dec 19 2007, 01:14 AM']No one purposed this life for me, I chose to live this physical existence at this moment.[/quote]

Actually, God chose your life to begin (and your parents at a material level). You had nothing to do with it. And the relativist argument that you create your own purpose is missing the point. Hitler used this type of logic to say handicapped and mentally "dysfunctional" people by nature have no purpose.

What you really seem to be arguing for is a sense of hope, a sustaining of will to be. This is quite different than objective purpose and absolute inherent dignity.

[carrdero]

[quote]PapaHilarious writes: Actually, God chose your life to begin (and your parents at a material level).[/quote]
The concept of human development may be God’s creation. I say “may” because as I understand it, GOD had many helpers in the creation of the universe, this planet, animal species and how the human body operates. But if you believe that GOD sent me to this planet, that GOD purposed this existence for me, I would have to ask you to what extent and reason did He do this?

[quote]PapaHilarious writes: Hitler used this type of logic to say handicapped and mentally "dysfunctional" people by nature have no purpose.[/quote]

I believe that no other human is qualified to judge another entity’s purpose or physical existence. One can speculate all they want but speculation is all it could be.

[quote]PapaHilarious writes: What you really seem to be arguing for is a sense of hope, a sustaining of will to be. This is quite different than objective purpose and absolute inherent dignity.[/quote]
I do not hope, I do, I AM. I cannot exist for what others want or hope me to be (this is assuredly a recipe for disappointment), I can only try to be the best me that I can be.

Edited December 19, 2007 by carrdero

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1435432' date='Dec 17 2007, 07:30 PM']As far as criticisms against the pope go, there's probably an extremely effective/simple response: "How much of the Pope's writings have you read in order to arrive at an informed opinion of him?"[/quote]

I don't know. It might be asking a lot to expect every Catholic to read everything that is penned by a pope. Isn't that why we have bishops and priests?

["Kyrie eleison"]

I am a REVERT. I left because of bad catachesis. We cannot SOLELY rely on our religious classes and church on Sunday to teach us about our faith. The priest last Sunday on his sermon told us that we as parents are the stewards of our children and must show our children the way to Jesus and make sure they know why they believe what they believe.

Needless to say, I attended differing churches and many times went to the altar call as a born-again believer. I really strated believing in all that stuff.... we didn't need Mary, the Pope, etc...etc..... all I know is that I truly and sincerely was searching for God and by his GRACE, he led me back to the Church.

I am a better Catholic for it. Everyday, I teach my kids about the Catholic faith and have even told my son, if he feels that God is calling him to the priesthood, I would be very proud to have a son as a priest.

What gets me are the ex-Catholics who are very vehement against the Church and mock everything about the Church that Jesus founded.

Edited December 19, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison"

[PapaHilarious]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1436078' date='Dec 19 2007, 08:27 AM']I am a REVERT. I left because of bad catachesis. We cannot SOLELY rely on our religious classes and church on Sunday to teach us about our faith. The priest last Sunday on his sermon told us that we as parents are the stewards of our children and must show our children the way to Jesus and make sure they know why they believe what they believe.

Needless to say, I attended differing churches and many times went to the altar call as a born-again believer. I really strated believing in all that stuff.... we didn't need Mary, the Pope, etc...etc..... all I know is that I truly and sincerely was searching for God and by his GRACE, he led me back to the Church.

I am a better Catholic for it. Everyday, I teach my kids about the Catholic faith and have even told my son, if he feels that God is calling him to the priesthood, I would be very proud to have a son as a priest.

What gets me are the ex-Catholics who are very vehement against the Church and mock everything about the Church that Jesus founded.[/quote]

Great points. I can feel where you're coming from. My family left the Church before I was born and became Evangelical. It took many years of studying Catholicism and what the Church truly teaches - not what angry, ex-Catholics [u]claim[/u] it does - before I was ever able to see just how much I was missing.

[MissyP89]

I, too, am a revert--which is why I blame angry ex-Catholics on bad catechesis.

I don't think I learned much of anything in my 8 years of CCD, honestly. Basic Trinitarian and Marian stuff, all of the major prayers so well that I could recite them in my sleep, the Gospel, etc, but...

If you had asked me four years ago what my Church taught, it would be a very wishy washy answer about how God loves and forgives us because Jesus died. It didn't matter to me, or to anyone in my CCD class. Almost all of them have fallen away now.

As far as Catholics who don't believe but still receive the Eucharist, nothing makes me more angry/depressed. It happens all the time in my family...when I called one of them on it, they said they didn't care. It's painful to receive with them, all I can do is beg His mercy.

Knowing how bad my catechism was makes me want to strive to educate my children the best I can, if and when I have a family. I never want them to learn the hard way like I did.

Okay, enough angst.

[carrdero]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1436290' date='Dec 19 2007, 08:00 PM']I, too, am a revert--which is why I blame angry ex-Catholics on bad catechesis.

I don't think I learned much of anything in my 8 years of CCD, honestly. Basic Trinitarian and Marian stuff, all of the major prayers so well that I could recite them in my sleep, the Gospel, etc, but...

If you had asked me four years ago what my Church taught, it would be a very wishy washy answer about how God loves and forgives us because Jesus died. It didn't matter to me, or to anyone in my CCD class. Almost all of them have fallen away now.

As far as Catholics who don't believe but still receive the Eucharist, nothing makes me more angry/depressed. It happens all the time in my family...when I called one of them on it, they said they didn't care. It's painful to receive with them, all I can do is beg His mercy.

Knowing how bad my catechism was makes me want to strive to educate my children the best I can, if and when I have a family. I never want them to learn the hard way like I did.

Okay, enough angst. [/quote]
Is there any reason the cirriculum is planned this way? Is there anyway to remedy this? Kids have a lot of time when they are young. This would be the chance to really captivate them with their inherit religion. Do the students who attend Catholic schools receive more in-depth studies?

Edited December 20, 2007 by carrdero

[jeffpugh]

Bumping this up so Rev can see it.

[elizabeth_jane]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1436302' date='Dec 19 2007, 08:33 PM']Is there any reason the cirriculum is planned this way? Is there anyway to remedy this? Kids have a lot of time when they are young. This would be the chance to really captivate them with their inherit religion. Do the students who attend Catholic schools receive more in-depth studies?[/quote]

I think Catholic school kids definitely receive a better curriculum. I went to Catholic school grdaes K-8, while my siblings went K-6 and PreK-2, respectively. I know MUCH more about Catholicism than they do. My sister was in sixth or seventh grade CCD (PSR) and she was asking who Peter and Paul were.

In my school, we had religion every day for 45 minutes. Tests almost every week, and projects, like drawing the liturgical calendar, making a model of a certain kind of cross, etc. In seventh grade we had religion "Bees" every week. We went to Mass at least once a month and attended benediction and Confession as a class. Things like prayer in the morning, after lunch, and before we left for the day were common, as were Marian activities during May (like May Crowning) and stuff like that. Sacramental prep was a lot more intense. And since we had class Masses and all-school Masses, we had to take part in those liturgies, so we learned how to be lectors and cantors.

I also taught PSR(CCD), and it's just not the same. The kids aren't focused, and at my parish it's on a Sunday night, so the kids are either still pumped from the weekend or they're tired. They know it's not for a real 'grade' so some hardly try. It's a totally different level of catechesis.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]Knowing how bad my catechism was makes me want to strive to educate my children the best I can, if and when I have a family. I never want them to learn the hard way like I did.[/quote]

My son has the best confirmation teacher, even I like to sit in on the class when I get their early to pick him up. She is younger and hip and very inspiring. Many of those who teach are very mundane and boring. I hate to say it, but kids now-a-days need someone to make learning about the faith, interesting and fun.

It definetly has to be reinforced in the home.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1436050' date='Dec 19 2007, 07:34 AM']I don't know. It might be asking a lot to expect every Catholic to read everything that is penned by a pope. Isn't that why we have bishops and priests?[/quote]My point was the opposite: not that they should read everything; instead, their answer would reveal that they probably haven't read [i]anything[/i], yet they still find it appropriate to pass judgment upon him as if they knew what they were talking about. Chances are, they don't. They're drawing conclusions based on hearsay and their own emotions, instead of facts.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1436967' date='Dec 21 2007, 01:51 AM']My point was the opposite: not that they should read everything; instead, their answer would reveal that they probably haven't read [i]anything[/i], yet they still find it appropriate to pass judgment upon him as if they knew what they were talking about. Chances are, they don't. They're drawing conclusions based on hearsay and their own emotions, instead of facts.[/quote]

That makes sense, I must have read your last post wrong. I agree