Winchester Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Luckily most people excrete money from their rear ends and thus are able to hire countless professionals. Reality. Many homeowners have a 1% deductible. 1% of my home's value is more than a paycheck for me. Anything under this isn't covered. Most people don't have a silver spoon in their mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 [quote name='rkwright' post='1441850' date='Jan 3 2008, 09:41 PM']Sure, get a private detective. Get the evidence, and take them to court. You don't need a police report to sue someone for the value or your property back. Just say 'hey that was mine, heres my proof, and now he has it, look at this proof' and bam.. you'll get the property or money back. Can't find the person? Fine, try them in abstentia. Get a judgment against them, and then get the shariff to take their land or anything they own equal to the value of your judgment. Or file a claim with your insurance company. Let them litigate it; if its of high value they might go after the guy themselves.[/quote] here's a specific situation: One morning I found a large dent in my car with a streak of red paint that extended to the rear tire. My neighbor's red car had some blue paint - remarkably similar to my car's paint color - on it's front corner - which was at the same height as the dent in my car. I called the police. They took a statement over the phone and charged me my own money to get a copy of my own statement. They refused to come out or do anything. I called my insurance company. I would have to pay the deductible to get my car repaired and then they would decide whether to go after the neighbor. Filing the claim would cause my car insurance rates to increase. So I got a cop friend to come out and write me an official police report. Still wasn't enough to get his insurance company to cover anything. what could I have done on a grad student budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 [quote name='tgoldson' post='1441864' date='Jan 3 2008, 11:12 PM']here's a specific situation: One morning I found a large dent in my car with a streak of red paint that extended to the rear tire. My neighbor's red car had some blue paint - remarkably similar to my car's paint color - on it's front corner - which was at the same height as the dent in my car. I called the police. They took a statement over the phone and charged me my own money to get a copy of my own statement. They refused to come out or do anything. I called my insurance company. I would have to pay the deductible to get my car repaired and then they would decide whether to go after the neighbor. Filing the claim would cause my car insurance rates to increase. So I got a cop friend to come out and write me an official police report. Still wasn't enough to get his insurance company to cover anything. what could I have done on a grad student budget?[/quote] Easy, take a picture of it and go to small claims court. Don't get the police\insurance involved. Kinda like Judge Judy You seem to have the right evidence requirement, preponderance needs to be something like 51% (thats a rough guide). Small claims courts don't require lawyers and typically have very lax rules to allow for the common person to bring a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 [quote name='rkwright' post='1441872' date='Jan 3 2008, 10:19 PM']Easy, take a picture of it and go to small claims court. Don't get the police\insurance involved. Kinda like Judge Judy You seem to have the right evidence requirement, preponderance needs to be something like 51% (thats a rough guide). Small claims courts don't require lawyers and typically have very lax rules to allow for the common person to bring a claim.[/quote] I've seen cases like this on TV before. With no witness and no "immediately before" picture it would still be my word against his. On top of that, he would have made his wife lie for him. I don't think my chances would have been that great; but that probably just my inherent distrust of the system talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Depending on the situation I would tell someone breaking into my home to put their hands behind their heads and get on their knees while pointing the gun at them. If they immediately complied I would not shoot them. If the situation was that I had to shoot the because they did not comply or started to raise a weapon I would not take any pleasure in killing them. If they were unarmed I certainly would not kill them, even if they ran away. Police do not shoot unless they need to even during the commission of a crime, and either should we. Human life, even of the utterly stupid, is more valuable than property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I have a kid. I would shoot a burglar down, no warning, no pause, no chance. Human life is moreimportant than property, but part of human life is property, and there is certain property I would protect with a firearm. My vehicle is necessary to my livelihood. My money is precious because I have so little of it and so much to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Great, I have a kid too. It's a moral issue, and one that we can't even begin to speculate on when we don't know the details of the situation. In some situations it would be morally justifiable to shoot to kill when there is an intruder in your home, in others it would not. I think of how many people have killed their own family members thinking their was a thief in the house. That's tragic. A friend of mine, Anthony, from high school almost got shot sneaking in his living room window at 3 in the morning when he forgot his key (stupid on his part - he would have been better of knocking on the door and taking the heat for being out so late). I'm glad his dad decided to wait 2 seconds to turn the lights on instead of pulling the trigger. I think the moral ambiguity of just saying "There is a thief in the house" is what is leading to the emotional extremes on the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Afterthought... I think most of the time it would be morally justifiable to shoot if an unknown person was in your house robbing it not because of the property argument (which I think is complete bunk), but because of the inherit danger of a person who is already choosing to commit a crime, that they may also commit a violent crime against yourself or someone else in the home. When I say there are reasons that it would be a sin to shot an intruder on sight, I would guess that 99% of the time it would not be when you know for certain the intruder is attempting to carry out a crime (such as theft) on your property having broken into your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 For instance, take the case I heard a long time ago about a woman who came home to find a teenage boy stealing food out of her pantry. It was day light and when she walked in he said he was sorry but he was hungry and ran out of the house. When they arrested him they found out he was homeless and living on the streets. I think it would be a sin to shoot the boy when he clearly posed no danger to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 [quote name='Brother Adam' post='1442136' date='Jan 4 2008, 06:23 PM']Afterthought... I think most of the time it would be morally justifiable to shoot if an unknown person was in your house robbing it not because of the property argument (which I think is complete bunk), but because of the inherit danger of a person who is already choosing to commit a crime, that they may also commit a violent crime against yourself or someone else in the home. When I say there are reasons that it would be a sin to shot an intruder on sight, I would guess that 99% of the time it would not be when you know for certain the intruder is attempting to carry out a crime (such as theft) on your property having broken into your home.[/quote] Exactly. Most of the time one would be justified in using force not because their property is in danger but because they are. Bro Adam what do you say about the thief walking off with your stuff? He's alreay taken the goods and is leaving the scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 [quote name='Brother Adam' post='1442136' date='Jan 4 2008, 06:23 PM']Afterthought... I think most of the time it would be morally justifiable to shoot if an unknown person was in your house robbing it not because of the property argument (which I think is complete bunk), but because of the inherit danger of a person who is already choosing to commit a crime, that they may also commit a violent crime against yourself or someone else in the home. When I say there are reasons that it would be a sin to shot an intruder on sight, I would guess that 99% of the time it would not be when you know for certain the intruder is attempting to carry out a crime (such as theft) on your property having broken into your home.[/quote] Exactly. Most of the time one would be justified in using force not because their property is in danger but because they are. Bro Adam what do you say about the thief walking off with your stuff? He's alreay taken the goods and is leaving the scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) I would not kill him or shoot him. Things are things. I've had valuable property stolen before and never had any inclination to kill or beat up the person - thats not my idea of justice. Perhaps that is because I am a teacher. None of those times though was I there when the person was stealing my property. I hope for my things to be brought back and just pray for their conversion. If I was there and someone was walking away with my property I would do what I could to stop them from stealing my things. It would not be my intention to kill them, and would not shoot them unless I felt a real need to use it. Edited January 5, 2008 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 [quote name='Brother Adam' post='1442403' date='Jan 5 2008, 01:35 PM']Things are things. ... I hope for my things to be brought back and just pray for their conversion.[/quote] asceticism is underrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillT Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 It's completely beyond me that some people think this guy is a murderer. He witnessed a crime and called the police, when the police didn't respond (even though there was apparently an officer watching from his car by the time shots were fired) he went out to stop the crime. He yelled at the robbers while aiming the gun at them (according to the article he yelled "Move and you're dead.") at which point one of the men RAN TOWARDS HIM before angling off and being shot. I'm sorry, but if you're stealing my nieghbor's stuff and I tell you to stop while aiming a gun at you and you're stupid enough to rush me, I'm going to take your head off. I can't risk myself getting killed because you chose to rob someone instead of getting a job. (Of course that would have been easier for the robbers in this case if they had actually entered this country LEGALLY) I mean come on, if it's me in that situation what ought I do? I've already given a verbal warning which is not only ignored, but met with an agressive response. Should I just sit back and let the guy charge me, take the gun, and kill me with it? Maybe I should just not interfere and call the cops. Oh wait, I already did that and nothing is being done. Maybe I should just take some pictures of the robbers so I can persue it through the courts. That'll only take a few months to happen while my neighbor suffers for lack of money because not only was most of it stolen, but he has to replace a buch of stuff for his house. (I'm not talking luxury items like a TV, but cash, necessary electronics, etc. not to mention if they got ahold of his Soc. Sec. or credit card and bank account numbers) What other options do I have? What other practical measures could I take to make it safer for the criminal but still keeps my life and at least most of my nieghbors neccesary property intact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamesfanatic04 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 The police have no constitutional responsibility to protect you thanks to a case in DC. I'm from Texas, if your in my house un invited and my roomie hasn't killed and eaten you(he's not well) then it's still going to be the last mistake you ever make. That goes double when I have children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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