Jesus' Brothers

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Question: "Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)?"

Answer: Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Later, in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood siblings.

Some Roman Catholics claim that these “brothers” were actually Jesus’ cousins. However, in each instance, the specific Greek word for “brother” is used. While the word can refer to other relatives, its normal and literal meaning is a physical brother. There was a Greek word for cousin, and it was not used. Further, if they were Jesus’ cousins, why would they so often be described as being with Mary, Jesus’ mother? There is nothing in the context of His mother and brothers coming to see Him that even hints that they were anyone other than His literal, blood-related half-brothers.

A second Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage, before he married Mary. An entire theory of Joseph's being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented. The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary. If Joseph had at least six children before he married Mary, why are they not mentioned in Joseph and Mary’s trip to Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7) or their trip to Egypt (Matthew 2:13-15) or their trip back to Nazareth (Matthew 2:20-23)?

There is no Biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: "But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) UNTIL she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus" (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.[/quote]

i would imagine the ultimate catholic response would be to say that the general greek word was intended, even though usually it means real blood brother. is this correct for the after its all said and done response?

edit: i also read step brothers from joseph's other marriage, which would be plausible given his old age
[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Bad_Aramaic_Made_Easy.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Bad_Aramaic_Made_Easy.asp[/url]
that's a pretty good link. but, i've already starte the thread, so say what you will.

Edited December 13, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[Deo Iuvente]

How about this for a reason: At least two of the "brothers" are elsewhere in scripture named as the children of mary's cousin,mary the wife of clophas.

[BG45]

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1433489' date='Dec 12 2007, 08:29 PM']How about this for a reason: At least two of the "brothers" are elsewhere in scripture named as the children of mary's cousin,mary the wife of clophas.[/quote]

Matthew 27:56
[quote]Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.[/quote]

John 19:25-27
[quote]Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son." Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.[/quote]

Some Scripture to help on the wife of clophas comment.

[cmotherofpirl]

If Jesus had brothers, He would not have given the safe-keeping of Mary to someone outside the family.

[thessalonian]

I wrote up a post a while back that analyzed the "brother's of Jesus" and the Mary's. It's not a slam dunk by any means that they are children of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Perhaps you will find it helpful.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=52652&hl=joses"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...52&hl=joses[/url]

We are always told that the following passages tell us that Mary had other children.

Matt.13
[55] Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? Matt.27


Mark.6
[3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

Matt.27
[56] among whom were Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb'edee.

The guy I am debating with had an article that said the Mary in Matt 27 was Jesus mother.

I did a little analysis beyond the usual indicating that this James and Joses/Joseph are likely sons of a Mary who is at the cross because an article posted on another board said that this Mary at the cross was Mary the mother of Jesus. Here it is. Hope it helps.

Consider these passages.

Matt.27
[56] among whom were Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb'edee.
[61] Mary Mag'dalene and the other Mary were there, sitting opposite the sepulchre.

Matt.28
[1] Now after the sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Mag'dalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulchre.

Mark.16
[1] And when the sabbath was past, Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salo'me, bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.
[9] Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

Mark.15
[40] There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salo'me,
[47] Mary Mag'dalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.

John 19
[25]
So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag'dalene.
[26] When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
[27] Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.
[28]

Luke 24
[10] Now it was Mary Mag'dalene and Jo-an'na and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told this to the apostles;


Okay, we have this Mary who is the mother of James in Mark 16 and Luke 24. We have "the other mary" and Mary the mother of Joses in Mark 15 and Matt 27, 28 respectively. Mary the mother of Joses and the other Mary are identified as being with Mary Magadalene when they watch where Jesus is laid. Mary the Mother of James is the Mary, with Mary Magadalen when they tell the apostles (luke 24) they have seen the Lord. Mark 15 has Mary Magdalene and Mary the Mother of James the younger (less) looking on from afar. In Mark 15 there is a Mary, looking on from afar who is Mary, mother of James and Joses. Hmmmm.

Seems almost dead certain that "the other Mary", Mary the mother of Joses, and Mary the Mother of James and Joses, and Mary the mother of James the younger (less) are all the same Mary. Note that not once are any of these Mary's identified as Mary the Mother of Jesus and in John 19 it is clear that we have another Mary (Mary wife of Clopas) with the group who is not the mother of Jesus. Further Mary the mother of Jesus is not mentioned in the passages where the women looked on from afar. Probably because she stayed right with the body. Or perhaps seeing her son to distraught it is not surprizing that she might have been taken away by the others. Perhaps John, who's care she was entrusted to and who was not at the tomb with the other two Mary's.

One more point. In John 19 it indicates that John and Mary are near the cross and likely the other women, who are together, are a bit further off. This is consistent with the separation shown in the other two Gospels and again indicates that Mary, mother of James and Joses and Mary the wife of Clopas are the same woman.

I do hope you follow all that. I think your author blew this one bad. As do many other authors who have to prove Mary had other children. Now I am not claiming to prove otherwise, just showing the bias they display in their "exegesis".


Blessings

[thessalonian]

I should mention that I find the most logical explanation as to why James and Joses and Simon and Jude are called Jesus "Brothers", has a little less to do with the language and culture than we commonly argue (i.e. there was no word for cousin), and maybe is because they are of multiple relations to Jesus. That would explain why James and Joses are later mentioned separately. Thus they could not be called "cousins" if that is what two of them were, while perhaps the other two were uncles or some other relation. The broader term "brother" was simply more appropriate to describe them all.

Edited December 13, 2007 by thessalonian