Should A Priest Be Able To Reveal Details Of A Persons Confession?

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='PopeClementI(MorClemis)' post='1426233' date='Nov 28 2007, 11:43 AM']If I were the priest, I'd refuse to absolve the man until he turned himself in. I would not tell anyone the confession.
Since we're doing hypotheticals here, what if the guy is a serial killer, but kills only "bad guys" - still murder, but.. tough call..[/quote]

You can withhold absolution if you believe him to be unrepetant or insincere, but you cannot withhold absolution to force him to make his sins public. You can strongly encourage him to turn himself in, but you cannot condition absolution on him turning himself in.

As for laws not agreeing, think of St. John Nepomucene, who was martyred for not revealing a Queen's confession to the King.

Edited November 28, 2007 by CatholicCid

[premed_jakey]

I agree. The confessional is a place of refuge and sanctuary. If we cant trust out priests, then who can we trust? As for the law...If I were a priest, I would care moe about God's law over mans law

[prose]

If a man or woman came in, and was confessing to molesting children, and I was a priest, I would break that seal. I would risk not being a priest or getting punished by the Church. I think the same would go for a serial killer.

Could he find a way around this? For instance, could, if the killer had confessed a location, the priest call the police and suggest a search of that location anonymously without breaking the seal?

Confession is about mercy, yes, but murder and child molesting would be two things I could not put up with hearing about as a priest and do nothing about.

Maybe that is why I am not a priest.

On a side note, in my counselling classes, we were told that if something like that came up, to let the person know that we must report the crime. Could a priest do that, and with the confessors permission report the crime?

[PopeClementI(MorClemis)]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1426360' date='Nov 28 2007, 02:44 PM']You can withhold absolution if you believe him to be unrepetant or insincere, but you cannot withhold absolution to force him to make his sins public. You can strongly encourage him to turn himself in, but you cannot condition absolution on him turning himself in.[/quote]
In my book, a true sign of sincerity is a longing to make amends, to change. If the penitent who serially murders and knows he has that inclination refuses to turn himself in, how does one know he is truly sincere and not just trying to feel better about himself for the moment?

[PopeClementI(MorClemis)]

[quote name='prose' post='1426385' date='Nov 28 2007, 03:51 PM']If a man or woman came in, and was confessing to molesting children, and I was a priest, I would break that seal. I would risk not being a priest or getting punished by the Church. I think the same would go for a serial killer.[/quote]That may be bold and even noble, in the right situation. Sometimes a moral conviction is worth losing everything for. On the other hand, I understand why a priest would not break the seal as well - I mean how many people will want to go to confession if they think that the priest may "tattle" if one confesses "too much"..

[quote]Could he find a way around this? For instance, could, if the killer had confessed a location, the priest call the police and suggest a search of that location anonymously without breaking the seal?[/quote]
I don't think so.

[quote]On a side note, in my counselling classes, we were told that if something like that came up, to let the person know that we must report the crime. Could a priest do that, and with the confessors permission report the crime?[/quote]Again, I don't think so. If a confessor would allow a priest to report, why wouldn't he report it himself?

[Autumn Dusk]

a psychotic person -eg a serial killer- may not go in the confessional to truly confess but to "brag" to a powerless source. A wise priest could find his way around the barrier of confession, such as getting the person to talk after confession is over. However, like I said above, priests are often trained in the spiritual ills, not the psycological so the ability of any given priest could vary dramatically.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='prose' post='1426385' date='Nov 28 2007, 04:51 PM']On a side note, in my counselling classes, we were told that if something like that came up, to let the person know that we must report the crime. Could a priest do that, and with the confessors permission report the crime?[/quote]
Well, the Priest would be lieing as he is under the Seal of Confession and cannot report the crime. Even then, I believe the Penitant would need to repeat what he wishes the Priest to turn him in for outside of the Confessional if the Penitant wished for the Priest to turn him in.


[quote name='PopeClementI(MorClemis)' post='1426390' date='Nov 28 2007, 05:06 PM']In my book, a true sign of sincerity is a longing to make amends, to change. If the penitent who serially murders and knows he has that inclination refuses to turn himself in, how does one know he is truly sincere and not just trying to feel better about himself for the moment?[/quote]

I would agree, a sign of sincerity in any case would to be to [u]want to[/u] change. I would say the circumstances change and would vary on the case of a serial murder. If they went to the same Priest, confessed the sames sins, and the Priest saw no attempt at reform, ect... then I believe he should withhold absolution.
The same thing would be seen with an addiction. One needs to want help and use the Confessional as a means to restore their relation with God [b]with[/b] the intent to keep it intact. One cannot use the Confessional to 'go in, get a good feeling about yourself, then intend to go out and commit the same sins'. That would show a lack of contrition, and I believe would effect the Confession, if not invalidate it.

However, the Priest cannot use Absolution as a 'bargaining chip' to force the person to turn themselves in. The Seal of the Confessional not only extends to the Priest revealing the person's sins, but putting the penitant in a position where he would have to reveal the contents of the Confession.


[quote]A wise priest could find his way around the barrier of confession, such as getting the person to talk after confession is over.[/quote]
I would question if that would also violate the Seal of the Confession as the Priest is using knowledge from the Confession to trick the Penitent into revealing sins outside the Confessional.

Edited November 28, 2007 by CatholicCid

[rkwright]

There are good posts here, but I think the meat of the question is being missed.

Is the seal of confession more valuable than a human life, and why? Most the posts have said 'yes' more or less, but I haven't seen much reasoning behind it... thoughts?

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1426479' date='Nov 28 2007, 08:39 PM']There are good posts here, but I think the meat of the question is being missed.

Is the seal of confession more valuable than a human life, and why? Most the posts have said 'yes' more or less, but I haven't seen much reasoning behind it... thoughts?[/quote]

I admit, haven't ever thought about the whole 'why' too much.

My 2 cents on it:

The Seal of Confession is absolute as the Priest is acting in persona christi (In the Person of Christ) when hearing a Confession. Therefore, any and all sins revealed in the Confessional are truly given up to Christ, as one asks for his mercy, his forgiveness, and his love through such a humbling act. The Priest has no entitlement to the sins as they are given up to Christ, creating the Seal of Confession and the penalty of excommunication, cut off from Christ, His Church, and the Sacraments if the Seal is broken. They belong* no longer to the penitent or to the Priest, but to Christ.

I've heard it said that before an exorcism, those participating are to have Confession as once a sin is forgiven, Satan no longer knows it and cannot use it against you as it has been forgiven by Christ. When one enters the Confessional, his sins are revealed to Christ and the Priest is bound as an instrument of God to keep sealed one's humble Confession.

*I use 'belong' as lack for a better word.

Edited November 29, 2007 by CatholicCid

[ironmonk]

[quote name='infinitelord1' post='1426162' date='Nov 28 2007, 07:59 AM']Heres one of those debates that may be a lil controversial. Lets say that a serial killer confessed his murders to a priest. Now lets say that the serial killer kept killing even though he was confessing his sins he shows no sign of stopping. Wouldnt you think it would be the duty of the priest to go tell the proper authority to stop the madness? What are your thoughts?[/quote]

"controversial"... no, not at all, it's black and white, it's a simple answer. Confession should NEVER be revealed. The sinner may reveal his sin to others, but the Priest may not.

Church law is above any country's law... for the Catholic Church is the Church of the Living God.

Any government that attempts to take away the secrecy of confessional should be overthrown.

If a lawyer doesn't have to give up his client, how can they expect anything less from a Priest of God.

So many people do not really get the gist of what this life is about... yes, evil things happen, and every will pay for what evil they do and say... Vengence is the Lords. The only true justice is God's justice. Life is about dying... it's about making it to Heaven. The only thing that matters in life is going to Heaven at death. How to do that is very clear... just follow the Catholic Church teachings.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[rkwright]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1426509' date='Nov 28 2007, 08:42 PM']Any government that attempts to take away the secrecy of confessional should be overthrown.[/quote]

Iron, for someone I see as pretty conservative around here, do you believe that the U.S. government should be overthrown?

[Maggyie]

According to Aquinas, breaking the seal of the confessional is comparable to deliberately "consecrating" invalid matter as the Body and Blood of Christ at mass. In other words, it is a sacrilege of the highest order.

[thequeensindian]

If a priest knew that a crime would be comitted and did nothing to stop it, wouldn't he be partially responsible?

I suspect that most priests, being good men, would turn a serial killer or serial child molester in and accept whatever consequences result.

[Anthony]

[quote name='infinitelord1' post='1426162' date='Nov 28 2007, 06:59 AM']Heres one of those debates that may be a lil controversial. Lets say that a serial killer confessed his murders to a priest. Now lets say that the serial killer kept killing even though he was confessing his sins he shows no sign of stopping. Wouldnt you think it would be the duty of the priest to go tell the proper authority to stop the madness? What are your thoughts?[/quote]

Priests are bound to the seal of the confessional. Under no circumstance will a priest or should a priest tell someone's sins to a third party. What exactly do you mean when you say the serial killer shows no signs of stopping? Is he purposely killing and going to confession. If he is struggling with some issue that is causing him to sin, it is the duty of the priest to councel him because. There might be a deeper reason for the serial killers issue, maybe spiritual. In any case, the priest can refer the serial killer to the right people, but is bound to the seal of the confessional regardless. This is what I think.

[Anthony]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1426353' date='Nov 28 2007, 02:28 PM']While I agree with the above no, it is interesting to note that the law does not always agree. Priests can be held civilly liable and possibly criminally for the knowledge gained in confessions.

The same goes for doctor\patient privilege, attorney\client (though this is narrower than the other two).[/quote]

I don't think that's true. Confession is between the penitent and God. It's not the same as a doctor/patient privilege or a attorney/client privilege. There are no forms to fill out. It's an unwritten rule of God that what is said in the confessional stays in the confessional. I actually heard that priests actually a special grace from God to forget the sins heard in confession. How can a priest be obligated by the law to dislose information they do not possess?