What Is A Conservative?

[Spamity Calamity]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1427054' date='Nov 29 2007, 10:29 PM']Individual rights may be important, but they are not the be-all and end-all that trumps everything else.
Liberals too would say that individual rights trump all else, such as a "woman's right to choose abortion," the "right" to publicly engage in obscene behavior or display pornagraphy, or the "right" not to be offended by a storefront creche display. Of course, most of these so-called "rights" are bogus, and many situations beg the question of where one person's rights end and another's begins.
This is where moral law comes into play.

The key is that the government must be beholden to the moral law, not the other way around.

This said, the government must never take away the legitimite rights of citizens, such as the right to private poverty, the right to freely practice one's religion and raise his family as he sees fit, and the right to bear arms and to self-defense.[/quote]

Lotta good points there and I mostly agree with you. I love the Big Lebowski avatar. But let me just zero in on one thing real quick.
[quote name='Socrates' post='1427054' date='Nov 29 2007, 10:29 PM']Liberals too would say that individual rights trump all else, such as a "woman's right to choose abortion[/quote]
In my world this wouldnt be an issue because a no other person has the right to decide if another lives or dies. (bye bye capital punishment!) The woman cannot violate the individual rights of the unborn. I think this is a good example of how the liberals try to hide behind individual rights in order to push their agenda. The good part about this though is that these "rights" (and the others you mentioned like pornography) quickly dissipate under even the smallest amount of scrutiny.

Now I am not convinced the government should be there to enforce morality which is what I think you are saying. I think that is religions role myself. But yeah I mostly agree with you.

[dairygirl4u2c]

you should look at popular conservatism to really define it. no government. against abortion and gay marriage. against the iraq war. thinks global warming is factually a hoax. and many details of legal areas like insurance lending etc are favored for the business. these are just the tip of the ice burg for what congress deals with.

sure, there are some conservatives who are against iraq, want to "conserve" the environment. etc. really, those show that the labels can allow greyness and aren't that great other than for general reference.
or at least should be for gneral reference.. some people actually conform to certain typologies, and that's the problem inherent in this thread.

it doesn't prove each individual positions is wrong but they should consider that their pop conservatism might just a passing fad. yesterday conservative meant something else and tomarrow it will too.
of course, you'd have to debate such a pop conservative on each issue, so he doesn't think you're ignoring his arguments by calling him a pop conservative.
i think that's my new word now, pop conservative. not status quo. i'll try to temper my use of it since it upsets soc tho. if he don't like any use well...

**They are the type to base their logic on unanswered questions and assumptions. **
reality is not black and white. it's based on things that need measured by empiracal studies. only extreme principles don't need studies for basis.
the ability to see ambiguity and speak to it shows a wise man. of course, claiming ambiguity when there's none or really none isn't wise either. it's a balance but.... again you have to look at each issue to reach a collective whole as talking in these vague terms are such that no one would disagree with.

Edited November 30, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

there are extreme liberals and they are just as guilty.

reality exists somewhere in the middle.


of course a hardcore conservative would say pop conservatives would bea neocon. i'm referring to what everyone thinks of hwen they think of conservatives. maybe i should just say hardcore coservatives.

if you fit a stereotype, an artificial social convention, you should really consider whether your beliefs are artificial too.

Edited November 30, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c