Women Priests

[Socrates]

This is why I've had Carderro on "ignore" for some time now. He disregards equally both religious tradition and reason and logic, interested only in airing his own opinions, which often are completely irrational.

It seems that while Carderro sees religion as merely a matter of "personal truth," forming his own private religion of "Patrickism," and rejecting all precepts of "traditional religions," he somehow sees fit to impose the precepts of "Patrickism" upon the Catholic Faith.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='mortify' post='1427571' date='Nov 30 2007, 09:28 PM']Ty alpha but I've heard people say that this does not forever close the issue, and that in the future there may be female priests.[/quote]

In 1994 a bishop sent a letter to the CDF asking whether Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was to be held definitively by the people and whether this position was infallible. Ratzinger responded:


"This teaching REQUIRES (emphasis mine) definitive assent, since, founded on teh written Word of God and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium, 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf Luke 22.32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal DECLARATION (again, emphasis mine), explicitly stating WHAT IS TO BE HELD ALWAYS, EVERYWHERE, AND BY ALL, (I'm taking a lot of liberties with the emphasis), as belonging to the deposit of faith."


that is a direct quote from the letter. it's ALL been declared infallibly by the magisterium.

I have more but I really don't feel like running upstairs and then typing it all out. Look on the Vatican's website for Inter Insigniores (an encyclical by Paul VI).

Also, JPII says, "In order to remove all doubt" when he writes Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. It is infallible and closes the issue. the end.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='PopeClementI(MorClemis)' post='1427984' date='Dec 1 2007, 10:59 PM']This is why you are not a Catholic, do not understand Catholicism, and cannot speak for Catholicism. How can you claim to know what we should or should not do when 1)you do not share our faith 2)do not belong to our organization 3)do not understand our organization 4)do not understand our beliefs 5)do not recognize that Catholic priesthood is in service of the laity not above it 6)that Catholic priesthood is intrinsically linked to fatherhood 7)don't care about our Church or it's members except to transform us to your personal judgments 8)do not recognize the sources we consider authoritative and binding
The ultimate question is - why do you care whether Catholics ordain women priests or not, since it will not have any effect on you positively or negatively, but will destroy our Faith as we understand it? Is your goal to destroy our faith, since you see it as "archaic, backward, outmoded, etc"?

The religion you espouse is about individualism and selfishness, our Faith is not about 'me', it's about Him; it's about community and selflessness. Our world views can never live in harmony - the twain shall never meet.[/quote]

hear, hear! JPII also states in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis that

"it is a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself."

If the Church ordained women all (and I mean ALL) other teachings would be suspect.

[carrdero]

[quote]Pope Clement writes: This is why you are not a Catholic, do not understand Catholicism, and cannot speak for Catholicism. How can you claim to know what we should or should not do when 1)you do not share our faith2)do not belong to our organization 3)do not understand our organization 4)do not understand our beliefs 5)do not recognize that Catholic priesthood is in service of the laity not above it 6)that Catholic priesthood is intrinsically linked to fatherhood 7)don't care about our Church or it's members except to transform us to your personal judgments 8)do not recognize the sources we consider authoritative and binding[/quote]
But you are forgetting the understanding that we are assuming to pursue the same Truth about GOD and I have the revelation to offer that GOD is not Catholic.

[quote]Pope Clement writes: The ultimate question is - why do you care whether Catholics ordain women priests or not, since it will not have any effect on you positively or negatively, but will destroy our Faith as we understand it?[/quote]
One doesn’t have to be Catholic to care about all humans who encourage belief systems. I can continue to respect people’s beliefs but there is nothing I can really do with one’s faith.

[quote]Pope Clement writes: Is your goal to destroy our faith, since you see it as "archaic, backward, outmoded, etc"?[/quote]
Faith is neither trust or Truth. It has been known to lead to Untruth, misunderstanding, ambandonment, betrayal, discouragement, disappointment and embarrassment. This is [b][i]part[/i][/b] of the nature of faith which in practice and actuality, never required my assistance.

[quote]Pope Clement writes: The religion you espouse is about individualism and selfishness, our Faith is not about 'me', it's about Him;[/quote]
Actually the pronouns that are mostly utilized in member’s posts are “we” and “us”.
[quote]Pope Clement writes: it's about community and selflessness. Our world views can never live in harmony - the twain shall never meet.[/quote]
It is about humanness and the philosophy of kindness. One’s faith or religion is no excuse to segregate anyone because then one misses the opportunity of understanding and discovering the things that we do have in common.

Edited December 2, 2007 by carrdero

[carrdero]

[quote]carrdero writes: There are a few reasons why prejudice exists. Hate, fear and/or ignorance.

I suspect that there may be a combination of both ignorance and fear involved in this issue. That is to say, that if a particular religion announced that they were now accepting women into the priesthood, they would also have to provide a reason why and this explanation may bring even more reproach and criticisms upon a religion. People will start wondering what else the organization is misunderstanding. At the expense of elevating women to their proper human equality (this would include their physical, mental and spiritual abilities and attributes) I feel that the decision to allow women into the priesthood would be a small price to pay and could only be seen as the correct decision to make. I speak from the experienced position of witnessing what women can offer in the areas of spirituality.[/quote]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1428015' date='Dec 2 2007, 12:53 AM']hear, hear! JPII also states in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis that

"it is a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself."

If the Church ordained women all (and I mean ALL) other teachings would be suspect.[/quote]
I figured as much.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1427991' date='Dec 2 2007, 12:13 AM']It seems that while Carderro sees religion as merely a matter of "personal truth," forming his own private religion of "Patrickism," and rejecting all precepts of "traditional religions," he somehow sees fit to impose the precepts of "Patrickism" upon the Catholic Faith.[/quote]
Why, do you feel that GOD will be more impressed with me if I was Catholic rather than Patrick?

Edited December 2, 2007 by carrdero

[Norseman82]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1427263' date='Nov 30 2007, 09:07 AM']He did, they are called the evangelists. and the early church fathers[/quote]

She shoots - she scores!

Edited December 2, 2007 by Norseman82

[Apotheoun]

The whole idea of women being made priests sounds docetic to me.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1426680' date='Nov 29 2007, 04:54 AM']Since individual’s faith and morals are constantly adjusting to new situations and circumstances, it seems that it is also God’s wills and intentions that also bend to conform to sociological precedence. Some religions have had to "get with the program" but this was only through the magic of revelation or inspiring updated bulletins.[/quote]

So what's next - the 10 commandments being amended by a 2/3 vote of Congress and ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures to allow adultery, stealing, murder, etc.?

No, it is not religions that need to "get with the program", it is the "world".

And instead of seeking God to bend to our will, how about you seeking to bend to His?

Edited December 2, 2007 by Norseman82

[KnightofChrist]

"In this day, we need a Church that is right not when the world is right, but Right when the world is wrong."

Arch Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

[SaintOfVirtue]

OK, frist of all if Jesus ever intended there to be a women preist he would have told his Apostles. Second, if Jesus had actually did ordain women priests he would have started with the Blessed Vrigin Mary. I'm pressed for time so I do not have time to continue further listen to Tim Staples' "Call no women father" tape avaible from St. Joseph Comunications.

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' post='1433111' date='Dec 11 2007, 09:36 PM']OK, frist of all if Jesus ever intended there to be a women preist he would have told his Apostles. Second, if Jesus had actually did ordain women priests he would have started with the Blessed Vrigin Mary. I'm pressed for time so I do not have time to continue further listen to Tim Staples' "Call no women father" tape avaible from St. Joseph Comunications.[/quote]

P.S. I did not read all the posts!

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1428224' date='Dec 2 2007, 03:37 PM']The whole idea of women being made priests sounds docetic to me.[/quote]

Whoa, good call. That's quite a jam-packed statement!

[prose]

For friend looking this up.

[carrdero]

[quote]SaintOfVirtue writes: OK, frist of all if Jesus ever intended there to be a women preist he would have told his Apostles.[/quote]

Jesus may have told the apostles but they may not have agreed or even had a reason to write it down. Jesus never had the opportunity to proof read and edit his own words (what with Him being dead for 30 years). Jesus may have not existed in the capacity in which the Biblical authors presented Him.

[quote]SaintOfVirtue writes: Second, if Jesus had actually did ordain women priests he would have started with the Blessed Vrigin Mary.[/quote]

If he wanted to ordain male priests he would have started with the Sacred Father Joseph.

Third, you seem to be under the impression that everything written in the Bible is True.

Edited December 16, 2007 by carrdero