Women Priests

[Resurrexi]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...dotalis_en.html[/url]

[carrdero]

[quote name='ChildoftheCreator' post='1425420' date='Nov 26 2007, 10:18 PM']Here's what it says in the Catechism
CCC 1577 "Only a baptized man validly receives sacred ordination." The Lord Jesus chose men to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. the college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return. the Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.[/quote]

The only religion that is still practicing that Council Of Twelve today is the Mormons.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1425403' date='Nov 26 2007, 09:52 PM']Remember, lack of any historical evidence for something is surefire proof that the Church suppressed it![/quote]
Well then if we cannot resort to any historical evidence, let us then examine from what we know and understand today. The Episcopalian faith successfully ordains women priests and they are valued as knowledgable teachers and caring leaders over the flock with absolutely no evidence of GOD becoming offended at all. I also know several female ordained ministers and reverends who are responsible in their ministry and take their calling very seriously.

Edited November 27, 2007 by carrdero

[Lena]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1425563' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:59 AM']Well then if we cannot resort to any historical evidence, let us then examine from what we know and understand today. The Episcopalian faith successfully ordains women priests and they are valued as knowledgable teachers and caring leaders over the flock with absolutely no evidence of GOD becoming offended at all. I also know several female ordained ministers and reverends who are responsible in their ministry and take their calling very seriously.[/quote]

also, the Episcopalian US Bishop is a woman--Katharine Jefferts Schori.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1425563' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:59 AM']Well then if we cannot resort to any historical evidence, let us then examine from what we know and understand today. The Episcopalian faith successfully ordains women priests and they are valued as knowledgable teachers and caring leaders over the flock with absolutely no evidence of GOD becoming offended at all. I also know several female ordained ministers and reverends who are responsible in their ministry and take their calling very seriously.[/quote]

Episcopal ministers do not have valid succession to the apostles and are members of a breakaway group who abandoned the church Henry VIII. They are not priests.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Lena' post='1425649' date='Nov 27 2007, 12:31 PM']also, the Episcopalian US Bishop is a woman--Katharine Jefferts Schori.[/quote]
So? And she is disliked and villified by the bible-believing members of her own church because of her abandonment of biblical teachings and her new-age pronouncements.

[PopeClementI(MorClemis)]

Leadership and Teaching can be done by the unordained. The Catholic and Orthodox faiths have knowledgeable and caring women who do both of these things.

The reason Episcopalians ordain women is that their views of the priesthood and sacrifice are far removed from the Catholic-Orthodox Apostolic faith. They are more protestant in their outlook, where ordination is an elevation of a leadership role. It is viewed the same way as a lawyer who is promoted to judge, or business person promoted to VP. While this is fine in protestant theology, it cannot be in Catholic-Orthodox theology, where the primary role of a priest is to be an icon of Christ and reflect Christ in the offering of His sacrifice; in Catholic-Orthodox theology a poor homilist or average leader may be a wonderful, faithful, holy priest.

[quote name='carrdero' post='1425563' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:59 AM']Well then if we cannot resort to any historical evidence, let us then examine from what we know and understand today. The Episcopalian faith successfully ordains women priests and they are valued as knowledgable teachers and caring leaders over the flock with absolutely no evidence of GOD becoming offended at all. I also know several female ordained ministers and reverends who are responsible in their ministry and take their calling very seriously.[/quote]

[Lena]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1425672' date='Nov 27 2007, 12:05 PM']So? And she is disliked and villified by the bible-believing members of her own church because of her abandonment of biblical teachings and her new-age pronouncements.[/quote]

I was just throwing it out there. I really don't know much about her, except that it's a pretty dividing issue. I think it's an interesting reflection on our culture that a woman has such a high position of power in the Episcopalian church.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1425563' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:59 AM']Well then if we cannot resort to any historical evidence, let us then examine from what we know and understand today. The Episcopalian faith successfully ordains women priests and they are valued as knowledgable teachers and caring leaders over the flock...[/quote]
Ah, but is their Eucharist valid...or would it be, if male Episcopalian priests could validly consecrate the Eucharist?

Let's not reduce the priesthood to mere social work. Having knowledge in teaching and the ability to care, even to a saintly extent, does not make one valid matter for priesthood.

[Lena]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1425744' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:30 PM']Ah, but is their Eucharist valid...or would it be, if male Episcopalian priests could validly consecrate the Eucharist?

Let's not reduce the priesthood to mere social work. Having knowledge in teaching and the ability to care, even to a saintly extent, does not make one valid matter for priesthood.[/quote]

So, since I'm seriously looking for answers and not trying to debate the matter---is that what it comes down to? that male priests are the only ones that can be priests because only a male can validate the Eucharist?

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='Lena' post='1425747' date='Nov 27 2007, 03:43 PM']So, since I'm seriously looking for answers and not trying to debate the matter---is that what it comes down to? that male priests are the only ones that can be priests because only a male can validate the Eucharist?[/quote]

No, it's that the Church has no authority to ordain women, and therefore cannot do so. A Priest can only be male as the Church cannot validly ordain a woman.

[carrdero]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1425767' date='Nov 27 2007, 04:53 PM']No, it's that the Church has no authority to ordain women, and therefore cannot do so. A Priest can only be male as the Church cannot validly ordain a woman.[/quote]
Someday, through enlightenment, maybe this authority will be granted to women.

[Winchester]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1425563' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:59 AM']Well then if we cannot resort to any historical evidence, let us then examine from what we know and understand today. The Episcopalian faith successfully ordains women priests and they are valued as knowledgable teachers and caring leaders over the flock with absolutely no evidence of GOD becoming offended at all. I also know several female ordained ministers and reverends who are responsible in their ministry and take their calling very seriously.[/quote]
People commit murder every day without evidence of God being offended. Your argument is unsound. Absence of lightning from heaven doesn't make an argument.

You know Catholics have serious theological disagreements with the protestant religions, so why would you bring this up? Honestly, if I didn't know better, I would think you're just trying to start problems.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1425804' date='Nov 27 2007, 06:02 PM']Someday, through enlightenment, maybe this authority will be granted to women.[/quote]
Revelation is closed, and we don't make it up as we go along. It has nothing to do with being "enlightened", but with holding fast to Tradition, which together wiuth Scripture and the Magisterium is infallible.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1425403' date='Nov 26 2007, 08:52 PM']Oh, this information was suppressed violently by Constantine and the Evil Popes, and all records were destroyed, along with those of the marriage of Christ and Mary Magdalene, the divine Merovingian bloodline in France, and the early gay wedding ceremonies.

Inquire into this matter further, and a mad albino monk will stab you to death.

Remember, lack of any historical evidence for something is surefire proof that the Church suppressed it![/quote]

lol nice

[quote name='Sister Rose Therese' post='1425503' date='Nov 26 2007, 11:01 PM']My Goodness! Does your Bishop know they are teaching that in school!?[/quote]

not sure...I've brought it up with the school chaplain and he describes it as "wacky"...he even said he "might" approach the teacher(s) in question, but I'm not sure that anything has actually happened. I talked to the chaplain about 2 1/2 months ago, so if nothing has happened since then I'm not sure that anythign will happen.

One of the teachers who said we would have women priests within our lifetimes also said "every year parents call and tell me I'm a bad Catholic, and how could I possible tell kids the things I do, and I shouldn't be telling kids things contrary to the tradition that they grew up with. I just tell the truth and my relationship with God is my own, I don't really care what they say."

anyway didymus, thanks tons for the paper. Would it be ok for me to show a couple people your arguments/ sources?

Edited November 28, 2007 by aalpha1989