How Original Is Jesus?

[prose]

I think this is a great article about this:

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp[/url]

Quote from article:

[quote]Historical truth prevails


Ultimately, all attempts to prove Catholicism "pagan" fail. Catholic doctrines are neither borrowed from the mystery religions nor introduced from pagans after the conversion of Constantine. To make a charge of paganism stick, one must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Church and something in the non-Christian world. One must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other, and that there is something wrong with the non-Christian item.

In the final analysis, nobody has been able to prove these things regarding a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or even its officially authorized practices. The charge of paganism just doesn’t work.[/quote]

[Laudate_Dominum]

C. How original is Jesus?
M. Jesus is SO original..
A. [i]How original is He!?[/i]
M. Jesus is so original let me tell ya...

[Spamity Calamity]

I think it was Emerson that said that Jesus was unique because he actually practiced what he preached. He believed so much in what he said that he willingly died for us.

[Norseman82]

Is this thread due to that "Zeitgeist" movie that is making its way around the internet?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1419226' date='Nov 14 2007, 05:17 AM']Many people have heard that there were many religions, beliefs and stories of the past that seem to mirror Jesus’ origins, existence, intentions and purpose. They speak of how remarkably coincidental these theories compare to early astrology and past historical figures right down to the virgin birth and birth date, the wise men, the healings, the miracles, the apostles, the manner of death and even the resurrection. Is this evidence of history repeating itself? Can it be offered as support for the belief in reincarnation? Is Jesus really original and one of a kind or has this character been picked apart from all the special qualities and remarkable characteristics of other deities and noteworthy figures? Is Jesus exclusively earmarked for our salvation or is he just another re-telling of an even more ancient faith?[/quote]

Jesus was real... as real as George Washington, as real as Alexander the Great, as real as Gutenburg... etc...

To question Jesus of Nazareth's existance is a show of total ignorance in regards to history.

What the real question is that: "Is Jesus the Son of God, a liar, or crazy?".

There are hundreds of writings from the time of Jesus from people who did not believe him to be God, but a liar or crazy... those which tried to kill the movement.

Many things were written hundreds of years before Jesus, describing what the Messiah would be and would happen to him. This which were out of the control of Jesus that happened to him where written in the Old Testament books. These are just a few of the many proofs.

Jesus is not some trumpt up story about religons that have been dead for hundreds of years. To question his existance and use the "...other myths..." tells others that one has never really studied it and only is going by what others might have said while hanging out... scoffing at religion while never giving it real scrutiny is far from wise. People cannot know the truth unless they actually look and study.

[Fidei Defensor]

I don't doubt Jesus was real. But I'm going to play the devil's advocate.

[quote]There are hundreds of writings from the time of Jesus from people who did not believe him to be God, but a liar or crazy... those which tried to kill the movement.[/quote]
Do you have any specific and creditable examples?

[quote]Many things were written hundreds of years before Jesus, describing what the Messiah would be and would happen to him. This which were out of the control of Jesus that happened to him where written in the Old Testament books. These are just a few of the many proofs.[/quote]
It's very easy to make prophesy fit whatever you'd like. How do you take this into account and how does Jesus uniquely fit these "many things?"

[carrdero]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1423015' date='Nov 20 2007, 08:38 PM']Is this thread due to that "Zeitgeist" movie that is making its way around the internet?[/quote]
Good call. It was something that I happen to come across and I thought it would inspire some interesting discussion to some of the forum boards that I frequent. I apologise if this was already discussed on this Phorum. You can also probably understand why I did not post a link.

I didn’t particularlty care for the way this version started but was a bit astonished with the references. After watching the video I had reached a decision that there was really no way one could prove the aspects and characteristics of Jesus’ life let alone lend credibility to the history and claims of these previous myths and legends.

[carrdero]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1423130' date='Nov 21 2007, 12:23 AM']I don't doubt Jesus was real. But I'm going to play the devil's advocate.
Do you have any specific and creditable examples?[/quote]
Credible no but the video did contain specific examples. Way too many to list though. The biggest reference was to the entity described as Horus.

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1423169' date='Nov 21 2007, 08:00 AM']Credible no but the video did contain specific examples. Way too many to list though. The biggest reference was to the entity described as Horus.[/quote]

Said it once and I'll say it again. St Justin Martyr's [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm"]First Apology [/url]is well worth consulting on this topic. The Fathers inhabited a polytheistic world and they were more than aware of how some people might liken the reports of Christ to other figures in contemporary cults and they felt more than equipped to deal with it.

[Norseman82]

OK, this is the "Zeitgeist" video that inspired this thread:

[url="http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/"]http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/[/url]

Be forewarned, it is almost 2 hours long. The first 30 minutes or so is the debunking of Christianity (warning: some crude language used). The rest is 9/11 conspiracy theories, with a portion at the end devoted to anti-Federal Reserve and anti-IRS themes.

But the first part is a good reference point for this discussion and further apolgetic efforts, and it is interesting that Justin Martyr is quoted in the video (although out of context).

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1423299' date='Nov 21 2007, 12:53 PM']OK, this is the "Zeitgeist" video that inspired this thread:

[url="http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/"]http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/[/url]

Be forewarned, it is almost 2 hours long. The first 30 minutes or so is the debunking of Christianity (warning: some crude language used). The rest is 9/11 conspiracy theories, with a portion at the end devoted to anti-Federal Reserve and anti-IRS themes.

But the first part is a good reference point for this discussion and further apolgetic efforts, and it is interesting that Justin Martyr is quoted in the video (although out of context).[/quote]

woah. pretty disturbing video. many more claims than what i learned in my secular religion class. to a non-believer it seems like it makes pretty good sense with its astonishing parallels. fortunately, "You duped me, O LORD, and I let myself be duped; you were too strong for me, and you triumphed." --Jeremiah 20:7. i've had too many miracles happen to me that if there is a world power that has been manipulating my mind, time, and all matter around me like a sheep as God has, then all i have to say is, "bahhh!".


the other conspiracy theories are pretty astonishing, too. if they are true and will come true, then what are we to do? email the video to everyone? i'll just become a "slave" to religion, give them all my money, live in a religious community, serve God and most of all, be happy.

[dairygirl4u2c]

there's no question jesus was real.

but the question of whether he was a myth or not in as far as what's been applied ot him is an open question.
if you don't consider faith i mean.

[carrdero]

I was only familiar with the Mithras comparison. I had no idea that there were this many references.

[johnnydigit]

apparently around the internet everyone mentions how pitiful that zeitigeist film is and how many false facts it uses. don't think i'm sorry i watched it but i do regret showing it to others in case they get scandalized..

[prose]

The problem with the question: "Is Jesus the Son of God, a liar, or crazy?", is that the answer could easily be "none of the above, he was probably misquoted.".