The Rock

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1418874' date='Nov 13 2007, 11:29 PM']There are different takes on that so maybe we should debate the matter. It won't be a real hijack of the thread since the title still applies. Ok, my view is that his name will always be The Rock because... j/k[/quote]

If ya smelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllla. What the rock..is..cooking! ^_-

[Spamity Calamity]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1418704' date='Nov 13 2007, 02:08 PM']Abraham was the [b]rock [/b]on which the nation and purpose of God was founded on, in the OT, just as Simon "Peter" is the [b]rock,[/b] in the NT.

God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow!

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=RnQiVgUn728C&pg=PA41&lpg=PA41&dq=abraham+was+called+the+rock+in+thot&source=web&ots=gp_TVaB6rO&sig=4h5yExTr7HlyBDFOD7OVyFIMYj0"]Visit My Website[/url][/quote]

lol, sorry i saw the "my website" link and thought it was your book.

[Spamity Calamity]

[quote name='BG45' post='1418820' date='Nov 13 2007, 05:18 PM']Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a great deal of confusion stem from the use of "petra" in Greek? I was always under the impression that the Aramaic word "Cephas" (?) was a bit more clear in defining Peter as the Rock upon which the church was built.[/quote]

The whole petra/petros argument gets tossed around from time to time but it lacks any real substance from what ive read. In fact, it was this argument that drove me to start debunking some anti-catholic stuff and find phatmass eventually.

[Starets]

[quote name='Spamity Calamity' post='1418888' date='Nov 13 2007, 07:05 PM']The whole petra/petros argument gets tossed around from time to time but it lacks any real substance from what ive read. In fact, it was this argument that drove me to start debunking some anti-catholic stuff and find phatmass eventually.[/quote]

Since the lines were SPOKEN in Aramaic, and Aramaic does not allow for the linguistic legerdemain required to maintain the petra/petros argument, the whole argument is moot anyway.

[Socrates]

These arguments about whether Peter was the Rock have been dealt with in [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=72877&st=0"]this recent thread[/url].

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1419111' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:10 AM']These arguments about whether Peter was the Rock have been dealt with in [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=72877&st=0"]this recent thread[/url].[/quote]
Know of any threads that address whether or not [i]The Rock[/i] still goes by that name?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1419116' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:17 AM']Know of any threads that address whether or not [i]The Rock[/i] still goes by that name?[/quote]
I think now he tends to be billed as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson.
Now that he's out of wrestling and has become established in movies, I think Dwayne Johnsons's going more by his real name, rather than his wrestling character. (I'm not sure if I spelled his first name correctly).

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1419122' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:27 AM']I think now he tends to be billed as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson.
Now that he's out of wrestling and has become established in movies, I think Dwayne Johnsons's going more by his real name, rather than his wrestling character. (I'm not sure if I spelled his first name correctly).[/quote]
Neat. He was cool in an episode of Star Trek Voyager in which he was a guest star. He had to fight Seven of Nine in a martial arts contest on some weird planet.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1419127' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:43 AM']Neat. He was cool in an episode of Star Trek Voyager in which he was a guest star. He had to fight Seven of Nine in a martial arts contest on some weird planet.[/quote]

"The rock" gets around! The rock is now making guest appearances on the Disney Channel shows, Hannah Montana and Cory in the house.

[Pleural]

Oh, so the Roman Catholic Church is founded on Dwayne Johnson... makes sense.

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='Pleural' post='1419181' date='Nov 14 2007, 06:31 AM']Oh, so the Roman Catholic Church is founded on Dwayne Johnson... makes sense.[/quote]

In amongst all the jokes there were a few serious posts on the previous page. I posted a long extract from Karl Adam and there was another post directing you to a long thread on this subject. For phatmass this is a 'been there done there' topic so its hard for everyone to be all stone faced and serious about it.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1419127' date='Nov 14 2007, 04:43 AM']Neat. He was cool in an episode of Star Trek Voyager in which he was a guest star. He had to fight Seven of Nine in a martial arts contest on some weird planet.[/quote]

Ah, the fun of Tsunkatze.

[Socrates]

In summary (there is more in depth in the thread I linked to):

1) In Aramaic (which Christ spoke to Peter) there is only one word for Rock (Kepha) so there was no Petra/Petros distinction in Christ's original words.

2) The only reason two forms of the word are used in Greek is because the normal word for "rock" (petra) is feminine, so being used as a man's name, it is masculinized to Petros.

3) There is nothing in the context of Christ's words in Matthew 16:18-19 to indicate he was changing the subject mid-sentence to refer to two entirely different things.

4) Christ is giving Simon a new name, Peter (Rock), and when God gives someone a new name in the Bible, it always indicates He is giving them an important new mission. (Abram to Abraham, Saul to Paul).

5) All the Early Church Fathers are in agreement that the "Rock" in Matthew 16 refers to Peter. Saying Christ was refering to two separate "rocks" is a protestant innovation.

Edited November 15, 2007 by Socrates

[Pleural]

That still ignores the fact that Augustine's interpretation in this sermon was that the rock was Christ.
He said that Peter was named Peter after the true Rock, Christ, just as Christians are called Christians after the name of Christ.
You can't deny that that's what he said and say none of the church fathers had that interpretation. Why is it so difficult to accept?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Pleural' post='1422206' date='Nov 19 2007, 03:40 PM']That still ignores the fact that Augustine's interpretation in this sermon was that the rock was Christ.
He said that Peter was named Peter after the true Rock, Christ, just as Christians are called Christians after the name of Christ.
You can't deny that that's what he said and say none of the church fathers had that interpretation. Why is it so difficult to accept?[/quote]
Augustine is not infallible.

Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.