Holy Hillary...

[Jaime]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1416941' date='Nov 10 2007, 09:16 AM']I don't think it was pointless. Religon, or at least religious sentiments will play a role in the campaign. These sentiments, in light of the candidates stance on moral issues, will be the point of discussion---and I think it is an important discussion to have.[/quote]


Its pointless to debate the statement made by Hilary (or anyone) that she prays. No one can objectively call her (or anyone) a liar.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1416988' date='Nov 10 2007, 12:14 PM']Its pointless to debate the statement made by Hilary (or anyone) that she prays. No one can objectively call her (or anyone) a liar.[/quote]


I think people have the right to ask how she can justly invoke the name of God when she supports the mass killing of the his innocent. People have the right to point out the contradiction....all too often we give them a pass.

[Jaime]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1416995' date='Nov 10 2007, 11:28 AM']I think people have the right to ask how she can justly invoke the name of God when she supports the mass killing of the his innocent. People have the right to point out the contradiction....all too often we give them a pass.[/quote]

to call her out on her actions is one thing. I have no problem with that. To suggest that she's lying about praying means that you have direct knowledge of her spiritual life and her soul. And no one here has that ability.

Prayer is meant for all sinners. Not just the ones we agree with.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1416823' date='Nov 9 2007, 08:28 PM']If you care about pleasing God, since you claim to be Catholic I assume you do, you would not vote for someone who is:[list=1]
[*]for abortion
[*]for same sex marriage
[*]for creating dependency on welfare
[*]wants to take God out of everything
[/list]Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics
[url="http://www.caaction.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=72"]http://www.caaction.com/index.php?option=c...1&Itemid=72[/url]

US Bishops Statement
Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility
[url="http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/bishopStatement.html"]http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/b...pStatement.html[/url]

If you vote for someone who is anti-life over someone who is pro-life, you commit a mortal sin and should not take the Eucharist, until you are truely sorry for voting for a baby killer and plan not to do so again (after Confession of course)

If both are anti life, then one has to look at who will be more of a baby killer, then to the topic of Family... it would be a sin to vote for someone who is for same sex marriage over someone who is for protecting the family.... etc... Proportional Reasoning according to the Church, not our own liking.
God Bless,
ironmonk[/quote]
Note, ironmonk's comment about not voting for someone who wants to create dependency on welfare is completely his opinion, and only his opinion. He doesnt really understand how poverty works and he tends to believe that anyone who isn't "working" by his definition, is a lazy and good for nothing bum who is living off the government.

[Apotheoun]

I hope that Hilary Clinton does pray, but even if she prayed twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, fifty-two weeks a year, I still would not vote for her.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1416831' date='Nov 9 2007, 10:49 PM']If there was is one thing we can sumise from the world of politics it is that politicians rarely portray their real personas. It is usually all an act. The persona my uncle portrayed to the the public and the man he really was were like the difference between Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde.[/quote]

I have to disagree. I use to dispise all politics and wrote off all politicians as dr. jeckel/mr. hyde... then someone suggest that I start looking at which party the person I found to be changing their story belonged to. I found that the majority of dems, at least 80% of them constantly contradicted themselves depending on who they talked to. I found that most reps say the same thing no matter who they talk to. This is the difference between a politician and a statesman. Politicians see the political world as a game and play the polls... whereas a statesman will speak his mind in regards to what he thinks will make society better.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1417038' date='Nov 10 2007, 02:15 PM']Note, ironmonk's comment about not voting for someone who wants to create dependency on welfare is completely his opinion, and only his opinion. He doesnt really understand how poverty works and he tends to believe that anyone who isn't "working" by his definition, is a lazy and good for nothing bum who is living off the government.[/quote]

Wrong.
It is NOT my opinion it IS Catholic Teaching.


Maybe actually [b]READ IT [/b]before commenting on it. Learn the faith.

[quote]Efforts to provide for the basic financial needs of poor families and children
must enhance their lives and protect their dignity. The measure of welfare
reform should be [b][size=5]reducing [/size]poverty and [u][size=5]dependency[/size][/u][/b], not cutting
resources and programs.[/quote]

As for what you write that I "think", then you know absolutely NOTHING about me. Your statement about what I think is completely moronic.

Edited November 10, 2007 by ironmonk

[Jaime]

Let's try another example

President Bush swears that he's a praying man, yet

He vetoed a bipartisan ban on torture

He believes that a raped woman should be allowed to have an abortion

And he attributes our Iraq invasion to counsel he received from prayer


Now should I believe that he's lying about his praying? Because of the fruits he's produced?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1417117' date='Nov 10 2007, 05:43 PM']Let's try another example

President Bush swears that he's a praying man, yet

He vetoed a bipartisan ban on torture

He believes that a raped woman should be allowed to have an abortion

And he attributes our Iraq invasion to counsel he received from prayer
Now should I believe that he's lying about his praying? Because of the fruits he's produced?[/quote]

Pay attention, this is not about her praying... go back and read it S L O W L Y.

Second, the war was just. The duty of the judgement of what is a just war is up to those who are responsible for the common good, Bush currently has that responsibility. I highly suggest you do your homework on this if you wish to debate this point... Read the Catechism and the Bishops statements.

Bush has produced fruit, he has done more for the pro-life movement than any other president since 1973.

How can anyone logically compare "abortion only if rapped" to "abortion on demand".... Get a clue.

[Jaime]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1417118' date='Nov 10 2007, 04:51 PM']Pay attention, this is not about her praying... go back and read it S L O W L Y.

Second, the war was just. The duty of the judgement of what is a just war is up to those who are responsible for the common good, Bush currently has that responsibility. I highly suggest you do your homework on this if you wish to debate this point... Read the Catechism and the Bishops statements.

Bush has produced fruit, he has done more for the pro-life movement than any other president since 1973.

How can anyone logically compare "abortion only if rapped" to "abortion on demand".... Get a clue.[/quote]


You pay attention. The article was about her saying she prayed. Its unbelievable that you don't even read the articles you post. Please read the article and educate yourself.

Second, then Cardinal Ratzinger made it clear that pre emptive strikes could not be considered just. If you fail in one criteria of just war, you fail. Please learn what the Church teaches.

And finally, I am going with Catholic teaching on abortion. Please go back and read the Catechism and understand that the Church is against ALL abortion, not just some.

Please educate yourself, you look foolish posting ignorant comments.

[Jaime]

Nice that you failed to respond to the veto on the ban on torture

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1417121' date='Nov 10 2007, 05:57 PM']Second, then Cardinal Ratzinger made it clear that pre emptive strikes could not be considered just. If you fail in one criteria of just war, you fail. Please learn what the Church teaches.[/quote]

The statement "if you fail in one criteria of just war, you fail" is not correct. An injustice in particular acts of war would not necessarily make the war itself unjust, only that particular action. There are injustices in all wars, all wars fail to meet the 100% line by line measurement of a just war.

The personal attacks against monk, gain nothing.

Edited November 10, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[Socrates]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1416938' date='Nov 10 2007, 09:46 AM']So then you agree that it was pointless to start this thread?
Good[/quote]
If this is a pointless thread, why have you wasted so much of your time by posting in it twelve times so far??

The point is that Hillary is a hypocrite, as her public actions have done nothing but promote the culture of death (note Hillary's [url="http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm#Voting_Reco"]100% PRO-ABORT SENATE VOTING RECORD[/url]) - hardly the actions of a sincere praying Christian - and that Hillary is flaunting her "prayerfulness" boastfully to the public in order to win votes from the "religious" crowd.
"[b]And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward[/b]." (Matt. 6:5)

And who do you think you're kidding, hot stuff? - If this was a thread about the prayer life of George W. Bush, everyone knows you'd be enthusiastically tearing apart the president's alleged hypocrisy!

Edited November 11, 2007 by Socrates

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1417117' date='Nov 10 2007, 05:43 PM']Let's try another example

President Bush swears that he's a praying man, yet

He vetoed a bipartisan ban on torture

He believes that a raped woman should be allowed to have an abortion

And he attributes our Iraq invasion to counsel he received from prayer
Now should I believe that he's lying about his praying? Because of the fruits he's produced?[/quote]


I'm all for tortue, if our country's well-being is at stake. Waterboard them, baby!!
These are terrrorists we are talkingabout here. It's an act of self-defense. After 911 do whatever you need to do to save my life!!!

Most politicians are practically forced to adopt the exception clause. it isn't right, but hey if we outlawed all abortions cept for rape, incest, and LOTM, we would have won a major victory. I will never forget how Bush flew into DC in his pajamas in an effort to save Terri Schiavo's life. I have a family member who is seriously disabled. It meant a lot.

Hillary is for baby brain sucking.

The Iraq war is debateable. He may have been in error, but I believe his intentions were sincere. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. It's easy to be a Monday morning quaterback.

While they both may "pray" Bush is def. closer to God than Hillary, that is obvious. He's not a saint, but he is a good man. I like him. I will miss him.

Edited November 11, 2007 by friendofJPII

[ironmonk]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1417121' date='Nov 10 2007, 05:57 PM']Second, then Cardinal Ratzinger made it clear that pre emptive strikes could not be considered just. If you fail in one criteria of just war, you fail. Please learn what the Church teaches.[/quote]

Cardinal Ratzinger doesn't have full disclosure of all the facts in regards to Saddam. Fact that Saddam had WMD's. It's a fact that Saddam was giving the UN Inspectors a runaround. Cardinal Ratzinger is not responsible for the common good. We all have a responsibility toward the common good, but it is the leadership of nations which are the ones responsible for the common good, and this is Catholic teaching.


[quote][url="http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/faithfulcitizenship03.pdf"]http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/f...tizenship03.pdf[/url]

Catholic teaching calls on us to work to avoid war. Nations must protect the right to life by
finding ever more effective ways to prevent conflicts from arising, to resolve them by
peaceful means, and to promote post-conflict reconstruction and reconciliation. All nations
have a right and duty to defend human life and the common good against terrorism,
aggression, and similar threats. In the aftermath of September 11, we called for continuing
outreach to those who had been harmed, clear resolve in responding to terror, moral restraint
in the means used, respect for ethical limits on the use of force, greater focus on the roots of
terror, and a serious effort to share fairly the burdens of this response. While military force as
a last resort can sometimes be justified to defend against aggression and similar threats to the
common good, we have raised serious moral concerns and questions about preemptive or
preventive use of force.[/quote]

Saddam directly supported terrorism. More innocent people died in Iraq on a daily basis because of Saddam than have since he was taken out. Saddam was giving $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers who killed Americans or Jews.

Sometimes in the real world, evil men must be taken out with the use of force. Much like Hitler, Saddam needed to be removed. This is totally in line with Catholic teachings. War is not good, it is bad, we know this... When we went into Iraq, it met all just war requirements which Catholic teachings says that is up to leaders of nations who are responsible for the common good to determine if those criteria are met. Bush sought Catholic council on the morality of this action, he was responsible for the common good. He would have access to more intelligence than the Bishops and Pope of the Church in regards to the WMD's of Saddam. As the UN stated in a press release, there were WMD's before, during, and after the war: they had detailed satallite photo proof.

[quote]And finally, I am going with Catholic teaching on abortion. Please go back and read the Catechism and understand that the Church is against ALL abortion, not just some.[/quote]

Bush is not Catholic, as far as prolife goes, he's done more than any other president for the cause. It is understandable from a Magisteriumless belief system why someone would error in thinking that rape was a reason for abortion.... nuff said.


This thread is not about the Bush red harring that Jamie likes to throw out every chance he gets. This is about how Hillary is an extremely bad choice for a president and how we need to get the truth out about her before she gets to reign in blood.


This thread is about Hillabillry Rodram Clinton.