Not Much News From Iraq. That Must Be Because:

[Lounge Daddy]

Great essay at The American Thinker right now:
[quote]October 16, 2007
Buried Victories
By J.R. Dunn

It is the victor who gives shape to the ending, who decides whether it will be yet another episode in the long Halloween or something that partakes of the higher aspects of human nature: mercy, honor, and reconciliation.

Which is why victory is hated by antiwar types, no matter what their ideology and motivation. (This is not even to mention the agendas of the hard left and the Democrats, which we don't have space to get into.) They don't want war redeemed. Anything that lessens its loathsome aspects makes it easier to view war as a possibility. Victory is one of the failings of war that must be gotten rid of. But of course, in any conflict (excepting wars of exhaustion, which we don't often see) there will be winner and a loser. Victory can't be denied to that extent. But the rituals, the salutes, the expressions of respect and magnanimity, can be undermined. And so we get buried victories.

A buried victory is one that has been downgraded and ignored, one that has been hedged with so many qualifications and second thoughts that it is scarcely a victory at all any longer. A buried victory is one from which all the human aspects have been drained, and replaced -- if that's the word -- with bureaucratic procedure.

We've seen this for fifty years or more.[/quote]

I won't post it all. But if you have a moment it's worth a read. [url="http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/buried_victories.html"]LINK[/url]
Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I know quite a few people who supported the war in Iraq. I did myself, albeit briefly.

But I don't know anybody who genuinely believes that it's been a rollicking success.

War coverage is still very much present in the British press, which I read along with two dailies from the Middle East - the [i]Arab News[/i] and [i]Al-Ahram[/i]. I also get news from my brother, who is serving in Iraq for the second time. He is very limited in what he can write to us, but I get the impression that he's not having the time of his life.

Perhaps Brits and Arabs are just inherently pessimistic, or maybe the European and Arab media is riddled with Sinister Liberals who are trying to prevent us from seeing the glorious victory, but I am more inclined to the simpler explanation: the war isn't going that well.

[BG45]

Bad stuff happens every day, good stuff happens every day. I think the media just tends to gloss over minor bad things, but also the large majority of good things that occur. Bodies sell, not schools.

[Justin86]

I can't say I really disagree with anything that article said. Sad but true. At least perhaps we'll be leaving Iraq soon.

[rkwright]

If we had the mindset in the 40's we see today, we'd all be speaking German.

[Lena]

There's a guy in my class, about my age, who said he is shipped out to Iraq when he graduates. This is so amazing to me, so young and willing to give up so much! It really made me think about the war on a different perspective.

I support the troops, for sure, but I don't support Bush's war.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1413898' date='Nov 4 2007, 11:38 AM']I also get news from my brother, who is serving in Iraq for the second time. He is very limited in what he can write to us, but I get the impression that he's not having the time of his life.[/quote]
Really? You mean war isn't all fun and games? I had no idea...

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1413955' date='Nov 4 2007, 03:39 AM']If we had the mindset in the 40's we see today, we'd all be speaking German.[/quote]

Hussein's Iraq cannot be compared with the Third Reich. The comparison is so overblown and unrealistic it's ludicrous.

[quote name='Justin86' post='1413965' date='Nov 4 2007, 04:14 AM']Really? You mean war isn't all fun and games? I had no idea...[/quote]

That's not quite what I meant. My brother has served in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Afghanistan, so he (and the rest of his family) understand the strain and difficulty that fighting a war or maintaining peace can place on individual soldiers. Iraq is in a different league entirely. When he came back from his first six-month term out there, David told us that morale gets low because the troops know that they're on a hiding to nothing. They're missing a sense of purpose. The 'purpose' is just to get home.

The article is full of myths. What reconstruction? Iraq's infrastructure is currently in a very bad way. Most of the contracts for reconstruction work weren't even given to local Iraqi companies. As for the elections, they were token elections for a puppet government - and the Iraqis knew it.

In the meantime, Iraqi refugees continue to flood into Syria and Jordan, putting a visible strain on the Jordanian economy in particular. If life's that great for the Iraqis, if they're tasting the fruits of victory, then why are they leaving in their droves?

[Adrestia]

I couldn't vote for any of the options...

the 4th choice should be:

[b]the majority of the American public pretends that we're not currently at war and would rather hear about Britney Spears' custody battle. Last year it was Anna Nicole Smith's baby's daddy. Next year it will be something equally disturbing.[/b]

you want news? one of my closest friends is on his 3rd tour right now. check this out:
[url="http://www.blackanthem.com/News/Allies_20/Cooperative-medical-engagement-helps-over-1-000-patients11133.shtml"]Cooperative medical engagement helps over 1,000 patients[/url]

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1414027' date='Nov 4 2007, 07:29 AM']As for the elections, they were token elections for a puppet government - and the Iraqis knew it.[/quote]

Whose puppet? Are we talking about the government that is throwing out Blackwater? Are we talking about the government that has taken control of large parts of the country?

[rkwright]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1414027' date='Nov 4 2007, 07:29 AM']Hussein's Iraq cannot be compared with the Third Reich. The comparison is so overblown and unrealistic it's ludicrous.
That's not quite what I meant. My brother has served in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Afghanistan, so he (and the rest of his family) understand the strain and difficulty that fighting a war or maintaining peace can place on individual soldiers. Iraq is in a different league entirely. When he came back from his first six-month term out there, David told us that morale gets low because the troops know that they're on a hiding to nothing. They're missing a sense of purpose. The 'purpose' is just to get home.

The article is full of myths. What reconstruction? Iraq's infrastructure is currently in a very bad way. Most of the contracts for reconstruction work weren't even given to local Iraqi companies. As for the elections, they were token elections for a puppet government - and the Iraqis knew it.

In the meantime, Iraqi refugees continue to flood into Syria and Jordan, putting a visible strain on the Jordanian economy in particular. If life's that great for the Iraqis, if they're tasting the fruits of victory, then why are they leaving in their droves?[/quote]
You need to re-read my comment. I didn't compare Iraq to Nazi Germany. I said that if we had given up at the home front in WWII as quickly as we did in Iraq, we would be under German rule.

If Iraq's infrastructure is "currently in such a very bad way", if Iraq is so terrible that everyone is leaving the country, why then should we up and leave?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1414090' date='Nov 4 2007, 05:37 PM']Whose puppet? Are we talking about the government that is throwing out Blackwater? Are we talking about the government that has taken control of large parts of the country?[/quote]

I am talking about the government that is currently characterised by sectarian infighting, with people in senior positions attempting to secure unfair advantages for certain religious or tribal groups while seeking to impose discriminatory measures on others. The Iraqi government isn't unified any more than the country itself is unified. It was like this from the outset, when it was decided by the Coalition Provisional Authority that nine handpicked men would take it in turns to be the president. The nine rotating presidents were carefully chosen on the basis of their ethnicity and religion - four Shia, three Sunni Muslims, and two Kurds. The CPA stated that this interim government (which was apparently 'representative' of Iraqi society, despite excluding Christians, Yazidis, and Turkomen, to name but a few) would lay a good foundation for proper democratic elections. That didn't happen. It obviously couldn't happen, given that several of these nine carefully chosen pillars were governed by other interests rather than by the needs of the people they were supposed to represent. Take Ibrahim al-Jaffari, for example. One of the Shi'a 'representatives', he was trained in Iran by an extremist group (Fida'yeen El-Islam) that is renowned for targeting schools and universities in bomb plots to make political statements. Another member of the original nine was Ahmad al-Chalabi, a criminal who embezzled millions from a Jordanian bank and had the enthusiastic support of the Pentagon in his bid for leadership. He escaped justice in Jordan by driving over the Iraqi border in a car boot, and when asked on national TV whether he felt that the war was justified, he responded, "Of course - I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the war."

The first shaky government didn't represent the diverse nature of the Iraqi population. It represented (or rather, manifested) factionalism. And although the rotating presidency no longer exists, meaning that the leadership positions are much more stable than they were, sectarianism in government is still a very real problem. It is doubtful how such a fractured body can exert real authority over 'large parts of the country', especially when different ethnic and religious groups have had to be physically split up in some areas to prevent more killing (a short-term solution at the expense of long-term security) and insurgents of varying political/religious persuasions are making as much mileage out of this as they can get.

[quote name='rkwright' post='1414095' date='Nov 4 2007, 05:43 PM']You need to re-read my comment. I didn't compare Iraq to Nazi Germany. I said that if we had given up at the home front in WWII as quickly as we did in Iraq, we would be under German rule.

If Iraq's infrastructure is "currently in such a very bad way", if Iraq is so terrible that everyone is leaving the country, why then should we up and leave?[/quote]

I'm sorry; I misread your comment. In that case I agree with you. We do have a responsibility to try and repair these problems, so leaving Iraq isn't a solution. But accepting this responsibility also means accepting that things in Iraq aren't going that well. Talking about 'victory' as if everything has gone perfectly is salve to wounded egos more than anything else. This is why I disagree so strongly with the article presented.

Edited November 4, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Didymus]

I think most people, like me, don't support exactly what's going on. Some are flat out against it, but i myself don't like the way it has been carried out. It seems like it was done too sloppy, and it could have been much more efficient and peaceful if we had acted differently.

[Socrates]

Latest news I heard (from those right-wing fanatics, MSNBC) was that the number of deaths in Iraq (both American and Iraqi) had fallen significantly.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1414027' date='Nov 4 2007, 09:29 PM']Hussein's Iraq cannot be compared with the Third Reich. The comparison is so overblown and unrealistic it's ludicrous.
That's not quite what I meant. My brother has served in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Afghanistan, so he (and the rest of his family) understand the strain and difficulty that fighting a war or maintaining peace can place on individual soldiers. Iraq is in a different league entirely. When he came back from his first six-month term out there, David told us that morale gets low because the troops know that they're on a hiding to nothing. They're missing a sense of purpose. The 'purpose' is just to get home.

The article is full of myths. What reconstruction? Iraq's infrastructure is currently in a very bad way. Most of the contracts for reconstruction work weren't even given to local Iraqi companies. As for the elections, they were token elections for a puppet government - and the Iraqis knew it.

In the meantime, Iraqi refugees continue to flood into Syria and Jordan, putting a visible strain on the Jordanian economy in particular. If life's that great for the Iraqis, if they're tasting the fruits of victory, then why are they leaving in their droves?[/quote]
Well, as for the morale of British troops, from what I hear that's low even in peace-time when compared to Americans. I remember awhile ago reading that during a joint US-British Navy exercise where the two services actually sent representatives on each others ships to compare tactics and technology, a comment made by a Royal Naval officer who said he was impressed by the morale of American sailors. Now, next to being one of the few sailors with boots on the ground in a war zone a ship is the worst place to be for the Navy. I'm sure morale was not that high for us Americans. But apparently it was high enough to impress someone serving the UK.

Having high-morale doesn't require understanding everything that you are doing. It requires accepting wherever you are stationed and making the most of it. It requires some creativity on the part of the servicemember I suppose. Some sort of sense of humor in the midst of it all can help as well. I'm not trying to say every last person in the US military excels in this arena, but I think it definitely is more common over here.

Your brother sounds like a very good man, what branch of service is he in? Hopefully he comes back unscathed.