The Sspx

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1413804' date='Nov 3 2007, 05:50 PM']I am puzzled. Is it possible for a priest to celebrate Mass if he has been excommunicated? If that's the case, how can congregants at an SSPX Mass fulfil their Sunday obligation?[/quote]

Yes, it is possible for excommunicated priests to celebrate Mass. Greek-Orthodox priests do it all the time.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1413804' date='Nov 3 2007, 05:50 PM']I am puzzled. Is it possible for a priest to celebrate Mass if he has been excommunicated? If that's the case, how can congregants at an SSPX Mass fulfil their Sunday obligation?

I know very little of the SSPX. I've tried to read about them, but ended up more confused than when I started.[/quote]

An excommunicated priest can validly consecrate at Mass. But according to the Vatican, it would be illicit, or very sinful.

[Groo the Wanderer]

They need to be true to all the Oecumenical AND Ecumenical Councils approved by Holy Mother Church to heal the schism they begat...

[Resurrexi]

Well, technically, according to most of the Cardinals who have spoken on the matter, they're not in a true schism.

[goldenchild17]

edit: nevermind

Edited November 6, 2007 by goldenchild17

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1413311' date='Nov 2 2007, 04:39 PM']Moderators, if this poll breaks any phorum guidelines, feel free to delete it.[/quote]
Not again tyler...how many sspx threads do we need!? We've covered every thing on this subject.

[goldenchild17]

I wouldn't go that far. We sure have had a lot of threads on the subject (though how this compares in number to the many guitars in mass threads or harry potter threads I can't imagine it being just a whole lot more). But just because we've had many such threads doesn't mean that we've really covered all that much material. I'd say that we've barely scratched the surface. Is their much more we can discuss given the understandable censorship of the issue? Probably not, and it may be prudent to let such discussions go as they don't really seem to serve much purpose except to annoy certain people. But all in all, we haven't come anywhere close to covering the bulk of issues surrounding the topic.

Edited November 18, 2007 by goldenchild17

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1421304' date='Nov 17 2007, 07:02 PM']Not again tyler...how many sspx threads do we need!? We've covered every thing on this subject.[/quote]

I actually didn't make this thread because of the SSPX per se but to accompany the thread on Eastern Catholics denying the Church's teachings which got moved to Transmundane Lane.

[faithfulrock3r]

just so you all know, I accidently hit yes instead of no for the last question. My B

[PopeClementI(MorClemis)]

Greek Orthodox priests are not excommunicated by anyone.
Neither are SSPX priests, but they do not have faculties from the legitimate diocesan bishop to celebrate the Sacraments. Their bishops are all excommunicated and in formal schism. Marriages performed by the SSPX are invalid according to the Church, so are confessions (unless at deathbed) - this does not apply in any way to the Orthodox.
[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1413824' date='Nov 3 2007, 06:38 PM']Yes, it is possible for excommunicated priests to celebrate Mass. Greek-Orthodox priests do it all the time.[/quote]

[Aloysius]

the invalidity of their marriages is very debatable if not entirely ridiculous.

when that group in Brazil that had broken off with the SSPX was brought back, no remarriages were requested, not even conditional remarriages, the marriages were valid. is the Church sanctioning mass adultery in Brazil?

the Church does not consider SSPX marriages to be invalid; and really, I've seen the canonical arguments, but I simply do not accept them unless the Church herself indicates that this is so, because it would seem to be so contrary to western sacramental theology it's not even funny; if the priest does not even DO the sacrament (it is the couple who administers the sacrament to each other in the west), how could the presence of a priest out of communion with the local bishop invalidate it? it's utterly ridiculous. they are illicit, not invalid.

moreover, I take issue with people who consider their confessions invalid too. it's a case of legalism which does not look at the intention of the law, but merely interprets it according to the strict legalistic letter of the law. quite ironic, actually, as these people are making the same mistake many traditionalists are accused of all the time, but usually they're only making this mistake when it comes to the SSPX whereas on other issues, they are quite content to see the reasonable position which understands the spirit of the law.

[Dave]

When the Campos crowd was reconciled with the Church, the married couples in the group weren't "re-married" because their marriages were sanated (sanatio in radice). But other than that, SSPX priests don't have faculties for marriages and confessions. Simple as that.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Dave

[Dave]

And as for confessions, please read this: [url="http://www.jimmyakin.org/2005/02/sspx_confession.html"]http://www.jimmyakin.org/2005/02/sspx_confession.html[/url]

[Aloysius]

I've seen Jimmy Akin's argument, I disagree with it vehemently (and think it represents a terrible perversion of the Catholic faith worse than anything the radical traditionalists have come up with), don't have time to present a good rebuttal to it now, maybe in the next couple days though.

This is the same guy who has proposed that there is no actual canonical requirement for some sort of penance on fridays throughout the year; and if you read his argument for why that is, you'll see the radically different angle he takes on canon law when dealing with that issue than he takes when dealing with this issue; here, he's looking for a way to discredit the SSPX so he'll utilize the canons to that end; there, he's trying to see any bit of leeway he can so he'll utilize the canons to that end.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='PopeClementI(MorClemis)' post='1424304' date='Nov 24 2007, 03:24 PM']Greek Orthodox priests are not excommunicated by anyone.
Neither are SSPX priests, but they do not have faculties from the legitimate diocesan bishop to celebrate the Sacraments. Their bishops are all excommunicated and in formal schism. Marriages performed by the SSPX are invalid according to the Church, so are confessions (unless at deathbed) - this does not apply in any way to the Orthodox.[/quote]

That's ridiculous. So a sect which denies the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff (among other dogmas) and is in a more than half-a-millennium old schism (the divide between the Catholic Church and the Eastern schismatics only formally occurred in the post-Florentine era) has valid Penance and Matrimony but a group which is only arguably heretical or schismatic and has only been so for less than 30 years which accepts all the dogmas of the Catholic Church (if not also the doctrines) does not?

Edited November 25, 2007 by StThomasMore