Nunsense Is Back Online

[AccountDeleted]

Hi dear ones. I am currently living as an extern while I go through some serious discernment about whether I want to continue my life as a novice in Carmel. Reverend Mother has been totally supportive and is allowing me to live in the guest flat which is above their priest chaplain's flat. He and I have had some great chats and we go together to Mass and Vespers at the convent (but now from the outside of the grille instead of from within the enclosure).

I am spending a little time to reflect on the past three and a half months and to decide whether I want to go forward or not. I have no answers at this point in time, only a sincere desire to find God's will for me, whether that is inside or outside Carmel. I would be happy to discuss some of the issues and concerns I have with other discerners, but outside the forum, since some of these issues might be sensitive to the community. My email address is [url="http://mailto:srannieangel@gmail.com"]srannieangel@gmail.com [/url]and I go into town once a day to the library to check email and go online. I would also be interested in hearing from others who might have left a community and who want to discuss this. I still pray for vocations every day, and I still believe that religious life is right for me. But whether or not it will be within this community or even within Carmel, are things that I am discerning. I am also considering becoming a hermit but rely on God to lead me in the right direction. I am blessed by God to have a loving supportive community and a great priest to help me right now. I would also appreciate prayers from all of you.

In His love....
Annie
PS I have decided that I am not "great" enough to take on the name of Sr Teresa of Jesus (two saints, not just one) and am considering changing this if I return to my community. I like Sr Annie of the Angels - lol! basically just loving Him and totally dependant on God
Any other suggestions are welcome.

Edited October 30, 2007 by nunsense

[Starets]

Hi annie
Nice to see you back again. sorry it didnt *quite work out. I am glad the community is supportive of you.Being an extern is still valuable to the community. "Annie of the Angels sounds good too!

[shortnun]

Hi Annie,

It's so nice to be supported by your prayers for vocations. Please know they're mutual.

[Mari Therese]

Hey Annie,

Welcome back. Thank you for the prayers, we'll all be definately praying for you to as you continue to discern God's will.

Pax

[Scholastica]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1411431' date='Oct 30 2007, 11:08 PM']Hi dear ones. I am currently living as an extern while I go through some serious discernment about whether I want to continue my life as a novice in Carmel. Reverend Mother has been totally supportive and is allowing me to live in the guest flat which is above their priest chaplain's flat. He and I have had some great chats and we go together to Mass and Vespers at the convent (but now from the outside of the grille instead of from within the enclosure).

I am spending a little time to reflect on the past three and a half months and to decide whether I want to go forward or not. I have no answers at this point in time, only a sincere desire to find God's will for me, whether that is inside or outside Carmel. I would be happy to discuss some of the issues and concerns I have with other discerners, but outside the forum, since some of these issues might be sensitive to the community. My email address is [url="http://mailto:srannieangel@gmail.com"]srannieangel@gmail.com [/url]and I go into town once a day to the library to check email and go online. I would also be interested in hearing from others who might have left a community and who want to discuss this. I still pray for vocations every day, and I still believe that religious life is right for me. But whether or not it will be within this community or even within Carmel, are things that I am discerning. I am also considering becoming a hermit but rely on God to lead me in the right direction. I am blessed by God to have a loving supportive community and a great priest to help me right now. I would also appreciate prayers from all of you.

In His love....
Annie
PS I have decided that I am not "great" enough to take on the name of Sr Teresa of Jesus (two saints, not just one) and am considering changing this if I return to my community. I like Sr Annie of the Angels - lol! basically just loving Him and totally dependant on God
Any other suggestions are welcome.[/quote]

Your faith is beautiful

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Annie!!!

It's lovely to see you back online. I have been praying for you every day. I will write you an e-mail as soon as I get back from the doctor's in an hour.

You didn't reply to my letter. I assumed that you were too busy or that you forgot. Did it reach you OK? My mum thought that maybe postulants weren't allowed to have letters regularly, but I thought Wolverhampton permitted them.

[Lena]

[quote]I am also considering becoming a hermit but rely on God to lead me in the right direction.[/quote]

wow, that's really interesting.

hope things get all worked out!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1411964' date='Oct 31 2007, 09:57 AM']Annie!!!

It's lovely to see you back online. I have been praying for you every day. I will write you an e-mail as soon as I get back from the doctor's in an hour.

You didn't reply to my letter. I assumed that you were too busy or that you forgot. Did it reach you OK? My mum thought that maybe postulants weren't allowed to have letters regularly, but I thought Wolverhampton permitted them.[/quote]


I am so sorry...

If you sent a letter, I have forgotten it - I am so sorry. Yes, postulants are allowed mail and email (via Mother) but England has had a rolling mail strike so some post didn't get through. Please email me privately and I will definitely reply. I am limited to 15 minutes online at a time at the local library right now, but Mother is trying to get wireless access for me. (she has a wireless router she has never used, and since I live in the extern flat I can see her network but not access it yet. She is trying to get her computer guy to come set it up for me.

Mother has been beyond supportive to me, and when I complained to her that Jesus hasn't sent me an email telling me that he really wants me in Carmel -- you will never guess what she did!? She sent me an email saying
"From Jesus", and when I opened it - this is what it said...

[b]I LOVE YOU. Love me in return. Forever.


From THE SACRED HEART OF JESUS.[/b]


Father keeps telling me to go back in - Mother wants me to go back in - the community are all asking me to come back. I couldn't be more loved and now Jesus even sends me emails - lol! Who could be more blessed?

I have told them all that I will go back in when I can figure out just why it is so hard for me to be there. I know it is all about surrendering my self-will to His Will, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet. So I keep praying to Him for the grace to surrender. I would appreciate any and all prayers from the phatmass family as intercessions too - beg Him to give me the gift to surrender!

In His love
Annie

[bmb144]

Prayers coming.

I maybe out of line in saying this and if I am, feel free to say so, but I always thought that surrender is a choice, not a gift.

You have already made the choice to be open to His will and placed yourself in a place where you and others believe you should be. Now your asked to make the final choice His will or yours. It sounds like in some ways the answer is already staring at you.

From my letter based chats with the Tyburn sisters, its a choice they make anew each day, each minute if need be. Its a choice of love. Choose love.

Be blessed.

[AccountDeleted]

Thank you for that interesting perspective. I do believe that surrender is a choice, but I am having difficulty making that choice right now because of my stubborn self-will. I am praying for the grace to be able to offer myself in surrender, just as I pray for the gifts of faith, hope and charity. I think that everything is a gift from God, but it is true that He asks us to make decisions based on our free will. You are also right in that this choice must be made every single day. I was making that choice every day for three and a half months, but it was a struggle for me in so many ways. As a mature adult who has been responsible not only for my own children (I fostered and adopted), and also as a person who has held many responsible positions in the world, I found it hard when I would see things that I didn't consider to be "right" or "necessary" - but I knew that as a postulant it was not my place to complain or criticise. Giving up one's own idea of "common sense" and discrimnation is not an easy thing to do - believe me. I fought the battle in so many ways every day. I do want to go back - but I don't want to find that I spend every day fighting interiorly because I can't accept the things that I personally disagree with. If I do go back, it will be because God gives me the gift to see that what happens interiorly is of much more importance than what is happening exteriorly - and will enable me to feel peace despit my own opinions and ideas. It won't be easy for me - but then sacrifice isn't supposed to be easy, is it? Changes might come to Carmel over time, but I chose this particular community in the first place because they are traditional - so to expect them to change now is stupid of me. I need to do the changing, but that is the battle I am fighting right now. How to do it? So I pray and trust that God will show me the way. thank you for your prayers.
Annie


[quote name='In His Light' post='1412877' date='Nov 1 2007, 05:36 PM']Prayers coming.

I maybe out of line in saying this and if I am, feel free to say so, but I always thought that surrender is a choice, not a gift.

You have already made the choice to be open to His will and placed yourself in a place where you and others believe you should be. Now your asked to make the final choice His will or yours. It sounds like in some ways the answer is already staring at you.

From my letter based chats with the Tyburn sisters, its a choice they make anew each day, each minute if need be. Its a choice of love. Choose love.

Be blessed.[/quote]

[Guest phatdaddy]

Annie,

I am so sorry you are having this difficulty. I hope and pray that you follow the adice of Father and of Mother. God bless you sister and be strong in this battle. Follow your heart and the grace to suffer in union with Jesus will be there when you need it.

Our Lady of Mount Carmel, prays for Annie.
Mr. Ray

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1412674' date='Nov 1 2007, 11:20 AM']Mother has been beyond supportive to me, and when I complained to her that Jesus hasn't sent me an email telling me that he really wants me in Carmel -- you will never guess what she did!? She sent me an email saying
"From Jesus", and when I opened it - this is what it said...

[b]I LOVE YOU. Love me in return. Forever.
From THE SACRED HEART OF JESUS.[/b][/quote]

No Jesus hasn't sent me an email defining His will for me either --- although He just let me read this post.

Thanks Annie for sharing this -- check your email for my thoughts.

-- Carmen

[Eureka]

Oh, Annie...
Jesus, your beloved, is very patience. Fix your gaze on Him. Count on my poor but loving prayers for you.
I'll email you and share my thoughts.
Heavenly peace...

[alicemary]

Annie, you cant change the person you are. I don't think that Jesus would want that either. Now you know that I am older, 54, so really understand what you are saying. I think you need some space now. You need to examine your heart with out well meaning pressure from the Mother Abbess nor priest. And really, you know deep in your heart what you need to do. Yes, religious life can be a struggle, but Jesus gives those that are called the strength. You tried, gave it your all. What has changed that would make you want to go back inside? You will always be the same person, and since this is a more traditional community, your views may not be so easily assimilated into the community.
Making no decision is really making a decision. The road to a life in Jesus is not always easy,nor the path is straight. Sadly the Lord will not send you an email, nor as He did for Paul, throw you off your horse.
my prayers will join yours and the phamily.
AliceMary

[AccountDeleted]

So many people have written to me with love and support and ideas and advice and suggestions, and all of this is deeply appreciated. Yesterday I was feeling very strongly that I want to go back inside, but I know that I am not yet ready for this. As some of you have pointed out, there are many communities out there, just as there are many possible partners for a spouse. And I could spend more time discerning with many of them, and might perhaps find the "ideal" mate. But, and here is the rub, if the problem is not in the community, but in myself, then all of the searching in the world isn't going to find my "one true love".

I have lived with and loved this community for nearly four months, and definitely Jesus is there. Yes, there are things that I personally think could change without affecting either the charism or the traditions of the order - and things that would help encourage vocations as well - but rather than trying to change "my partner" radically, perhaps what I need to do is just to accept that this is the community I entered and pray for slow changes over time that would not create a "culture shock" for the existing community. This particular community has been through many changes over the years itself, but it moves slowly because it doesn't want to throw out the "baby with the bath water". I respect this. Just as Vatican II caused a lot of heartache for many Catholics, while inspiring and encouraging many others, any changes to a community should be done carefully and with consideration for the long term effects.

The important thing for all Carmelite communities to consider however, is whether or not vocations are being supported. The world has changed so much that people who enter now face very different challenges than those who entered when Mother did (nearly 50 years ago). This community has had many people enter - and leave - over the past 7 years. At the moment there is only one Novice, who is a re-entry herself. She left for several years (on the eve of her solemn vows) but is bravely trying again (starting from the beginning). I admire and respect her courage and determination. But it makes me wonder how vocations can be supported to persevere in a life that is hard physically, mentally and emotionally. My Novice Mistress has also been in Carmel for over 40 years, and I know that both her and Mother find it difficult to comprehend just why it is so hard for those of us who enter now. In their day (as they tell me) things were different, and they accepted so much more than we seem to be able to do now. They are trying so hard to be open and understanding of what postulants and novices go through today, but have been unsuccessful in keeping any of them. They are not the only Carmel in England to have this problem. Several have had to either shut down or merge with other communities because of dwindling number, and the fact that the existing sisters are all becoming elderly. Our community has three sisters over 80, so they naturally want more sisters now. They attract them because they are a traditional order, and many people seem to want this. But the reality of "traditional" is very demanding - the romance of the long habits isn't enough to keep one persevering at a life that expects total obedience, even when the thing being asked doesn't seem to make sense.

The image of contemplative nuns floating around in prayer or spending countless hours in calm and serene contemplation of God is all hogwash. They rise at 5.30am and apart from 2 hours of mental prayer (sometimes taken away for other things, although this is something I find totally unacceptable), the whole day is spent in work of one kind or another until 10pm at night. No one in the working world would put up with those kind of hours. Even afternoon tea is spent standing up, in silence, drinking a cup of tea. The total free time (unstructured time) amounts to one hour - a half hour in the afternoon and again before compline at night. The rest of the day is totally structured. Sisters do not "chat" with each other - and only speak about work related issues. Recreation consists of two half hours during the day of time together, speaking only to the sister on one's right or left (seating depends on which chair is empty when the sister arrives) and that only briefly because as soon as Mother enters, all conversation is centered through her.

So what am I complaining about? I chose this, didn't I? That's true. But sometimes it feels like we aren't people - we are robots. And Father couldn't believe that we don't talk to each other behind the walls. He said he knew that we were withdrawn from the world, but he thought that we spent time to together as a loving community (he belongs to a religious order, and they are all pretty much friends and chat together). The idea is that we have more time for God, if we don't interact much with each other. But for me, I like lots of time spent in contemplation - I have always done that. But to be given one hour in the morning (6-7am) to pray - spent with the whole community in the choir, and then another hour (4.30-5.30pm) - which is sometimes taken away when we are asked to do a "garden day" or combine Vespers and Readings or say the Rosary or have a second Mass etc.... all wonderful things, but not exactly contemplation, well, I end up feeling like I don't really have any personal time with God, or even just time to reflect and meditate. Mother and the Novice Mistress have both told me that in time I will be able to pray as I work (which I think I do anyway) -- but this is still not contemplation. What Martha did, and what Mary did are two totally different things. I am sure that Martha prayed while she worked. But Mary needed just to spend time adoring Jesus. It just seemed to me that entering a contemplative convent would mean that I was able to be Mary instead of Martha - but life behind the walls feels very Martha-like to me. Perhaps it is only my perception and others feel differently. But I wouldn't know that since the Sisters don't "chat" so I don't know how anyone else feels about anything! I just have to assume that I was the only one with the problem.

Ok - enough compaints. What I am trying to do now, is to decide if I can accept this community life the way that it is now, and accept it with joy in my heart. I understand sacrifice - but I also know that God is love - so any sacrifice I make should fill my heart with peace, not despair. It is funny that I love these sisters so much, since I don't really know them at all - but that just shows me that God is definitely at work within those walls. From the moment I entered, I felt a holiness that comes from love. So perhaps if I can get beyond my own stumbling blocks, I will be able to find within myself those things I am currently trying to find in the externals.

I do appreciate all your prayers. I am a confused little bunny right now - one minute wanting to re-enter right away, and the next I am wondering how I will ever be able to live the life again. But then no one said this would be easy. Isn't that why Jesus said to enter via the narrow door?

Love to all the phatmassers. No one has been critical of me really, which I appreciate, but the thing to remember is, that unless you have actually lived this life yourself, you have no idea at all what is actually involved. The image of surrendering one's will to God and the reality are so completely different. Imagine being in the army (which I have never done, so I could be totally wrong) but you must be totally obedient and you are never being given a pass or furlough or weekend off or anything. No job in the world demands the total giving up of self that this life does. So, do I have what it takes? God alone knows.

PS I am only online for limited periods at the local library, so if I haven't answered a personal email from any of you, it is because I was kicked off the computer before I could get to yours - lol!

Annie (Sr Teresa?)

Edited November 3, 2007 by nunsense