Explain To Me How Dems At A National Level Are Not Crooked

[ironmonk]

Pretty straight forward....

Please explain to me how dems at a national level are not crooked in judgement and policy according to Catholic Teachings.

Fifty years ago, there wasn't much of a moral difference between parties... not anymore, the times have changed and the blind eye mentality to the "it's ok to vote and be democrat" in today's times goes against Catholic Teaching.

Priorites as set forth by God via the Catholic Church:
1) Life... No abortion, no euthenasia
2) Family... Marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. What society is built on.
3) Social Justice... Helping the poor work and learn to work. Not to create welfare dependency.
4) Global Soldarity... We are one family.


The ONLY reason I can fathom why anyone would still stick to this nonsense that it's ok to vote democrat at a national level is that if the Church took a stand they'd have to pay taxes.

I say... so be it... Give to Caesar what is his and stand up... God will provide more money as needed.... [b][u]OR[/u][/b] AT LEAST Laymen, understand the reason behind the Church's statement on party affliation! They say look at the items of the agenda, and I am... those who think it's ok to vote dem at a national level (in most cases - all I've ever seen) are ignorant of dems national agenda, ignorant of the Catholic Faith, have no sound reasoning to apply the faith to everyday life, OR a combination of the three.

I know that there is a snall ball's chance in hell that the dems at national level will change back to being somewhat acceptable, but that is no where in sight.

I don't what philosophical nonsense, your arguements need to be logically sound with the dems national agenda of today... not fifty years ago... not what it could be fifty years from now.


Dems National Agenda Items that destroy all Catholic reason to vote for them:[list]
[*]Abortion on demand
[*]Euthenasia on demand
[*]Same sex marriage
[*]Neverending welfare
[*]Remove all mention of God from everything
[/list]If dems are crooked, then what obvious label would apply? hmmm....

God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited October 29, 2007 by ironmonk

[Fidei Defensor]

People are not crooked. Ideas and beliefs are crooked. Some people subscribe to crooked ideas. But anyone can do that, not just democrats. I get that you want to defend the Church's mandates and that's noble, but tearing down a group of people doesnt defend anything, IMHO, it makes you look stupid. Stick to defending ideas, not bashing people you disagree with.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1411631' date='Oct 30 2007, 06:58 PM']People are not crooked. Ideas and beliefs are crooked. Some people subscribe to crooked ideas. But anyone can do that, not just democrats. I get that you want to defend the Church's mandates and that's noble, but tearing down a group of people doesnt defend anything, IMHO, it makes you look stupid. Stick to defending ideas, not bashing people you disagree with.[/quote]

Wow... what insight... I never thought that anyone other than dems could subscribe to crooked ideas. Thank you for such deep thoughts. Here I was all this time thinking that all the evils in the world came from dems... Gosh, I sure feel stupid Wally. Hmmmm.... what does it say about your thinking and logic to assume that I think the only evil and crooked ideas/people are dems? hmmmm.... Could I sum up all I think about crookedness in a post on this forum? I'm not sure I have time to type that much.

You're wrong. People can be, and some are... crooked. Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, etc... All crooked.

The dem party is an idea, it's a stance for what they are pushing.

Maybe you have a problem comprehending how evil the dems national agenda is. When one shows that they can't comprehend something evil when compared to the faith, it makes them look ignorant and stupid when they try to comment on it.

The dem party have set themselves up for the fall. The agenda is an evil one.

Maybe if more knowledgeable Catholics spoke up for what is wrong, there wouldn't be so many ignorant Catholics in the world voting for evil leaders.

Stop sitting on the sidelines and start speaking up for what is right and helping people see what is wrong... then one day you might reach someone, who will reach others, and they'll reach others...

There is this book, it's called... The Bible, in it, we can read of multiple accounts where the apostles and prophets denounced what is evil and wicked. Imagine if all the Catholics in the world really denounced abortion. Imagine if all the Catholics in America denounced slavery before the Civil War. Imagine if all the Catholics denounced giving condoms to children.

Wow, what a concept... Catholics standing up for the Catholic Faith and denouncing what is wrong.


now... please stick to the topic... prove me wrong with logic, reason and Catholic documents and I'll change my opinion. I base my opinions on facts, guided by facts of the Catholic Faith. I'm totally open to changing anything I believe if someone can show me with Catholic documents such as Early Church Fathers writings, Scripture, Encyclicals and the Catechism.

Edited October 31, 2007 by ironmonk

[Socrates]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1411770' date='Oct 30 2007, 09:22 PM']Maybe if more knowledgeable Catholics spoke up for what is wrong, there wouldn't be so many ignorant Catholics in the world voting for evil leaders.[/quote]
Uh, that would be, like, soooo insensitive, and so un-p.c.!

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1411770' date='Oct 30 2007, 08:22 PM']Wow... what insight... I never thought that anyone other than dems could subscribe to crooked ideas. Thank you for such deep thoughts. Here I was all this time thinking that all the evils in the world came from dems... Gosh, I sure feel stupid Wally. Hmmmm.... what does it say about your thinking and logic to assume that I think the only evil and crooked ideas/people are dems? hmmmm.... Could I sum up all I think about crookedness in a post on this forum? I'm not sure I have time to type that much.

You're wrong. People can be, and some are... crooked. Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, etc... All crooked.

The dem party is an idea, it's a stance for what they are pushing.

Maybe you have a problem comprehending how evil the dems national agenda is. When one shows that they can't comprehend something evil when compared to the faith, it makes them look ignorant and stupid when they try to comment on it.

The dem party have set themselves up for the fall. The agenda is an evil one.

Maybe if more knowledgeable Catholics spoke up for what is wrong, there wouldn't be so many ignorant Catholics in the world voting for evil leaders.

Stop sitting on the sidelines and start speaking up for what is right and helping people see what is wrong... then one day you might reach someone, who will reach others, and they'll reach others...

There is this book, it's called... The Bible, in it, we can read of multiple accounts where the apostles and prophets denounced what is evil and wicked. Imagine if all the Catholics in the world really denounced abortion. Imagine if all the Catholics in America denounced slavery before the Civil War. Imagine if all the Catholics denounced giving condoms to children.

Wow, what a concept... Catholics standing up for the Catholic Faith and denouncing what is wrong.
now... please stick to the topic... prove me wrong with logic, reason and Catholic documents and I'll change my opinion. I base my opinions on facts, guided by facts of the Catholic Faith. I'm totally open to changing anything I believe if someone can show me with Catholic documents such as Early Church Fathers writings, Scripture, Encyclicals and the Catechism.[/quote]
This is exactly what I'm talking about. No self respecting person would engage you and your word vomit. Get some original logic and talk to me then.

[Justin86]

Notice that in all of phatmass, you only found ONE person willing to defend the Dems.

You may have gotten a better response some place else, ironmonk.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1413147' date='Nov 2 2007, 06:50 AM']Notice that in all of phatmass, you only found ONE person willing to defend the Dems.

You may have gotten a better response some place else, ironmonk.[/quote]
It's not the topic, it's the person asking the question.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]t's not the topic, it's the person asking the question.[/quote]

exactly.

also, "original logic" says it best. i've never seen someone as unorginial as iron. smart, but only applies it to brood over trickle down econ, his version of what charity and governemnt means, no gray areas ever. never engages in subsidiary v. solidarity debates. never engages in whether voting for abortion is really that practical debates. never engages in anything that actually takes critical thinking, as far as the philosophical debates where the real issues are and can be addressed.
this thread is indicative, just putting out vague results of the unoriginal brooding that he tends to do.
not that brooding is bad, just be original once in awhile for G-d's sake.

id debate him, but he'd just get in some selfrightous rage/mock tangent as he always does, then leave and blame it on me, and not respond to the issues.

not that i'm dem. i vote republican, generally. (the generally part is where rational people reside)

Edited November 2, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[ironmonk]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1413150' date='Nov 2 2007, 09:07 AM']It's not the topic, it's the person asking the question.[/quote]

Wrong. Maybe for yourself, but the argument presented is solid. I don't expect you to understand because you are far off in left field... maybe this is due to believing whatever you see on the news, maybe it's due to being young... I don't know what it's due to, and anylzing the why is impossible on a message board.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1412817' date='Nov 1 2007, 07:10 PM']This is exactly what I'm talking about. No self respecting person would engage you and your word vomit. Get some original logic and talk to me then.[/quote]

"original logic"... "word vomit"... this is all you can come with?

Time to go read the Catechism and Scriptures a few times if you think you actually have a logical reason why it would be ok to vote for any of the dems at a national level or that they are not crooked.

Edited November 4, 2007 by ironmonk

[BG45]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1413147' date='Nov 2 2007, 07:50 AM']Notice that in all of phatmass, you only found ONE person willing to defend the Dems.

You may have gotten a better response some place else, ironmonk.[/quote]

Oh I would defend them, but I see them only as corrupt as Republicans on a national level. Individual politicians don't always stand for the ideals of their party, Democrat or Republican.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1413147' date='Nov 2 2007, 08:50 AM']Notice that in all of phatmass, you only found ONE person willing to defend the Dems.

You may have gotten a better response some place else, ironmonk.[/quote]

Proving a point and trying to educate those who are ignorant and do not think the dems at the national level and their agenda is crooked... anyone who knows the Catholic faith would know that there is no current reason to vote for or buy into the dems at national level.

The problem with those at the local level is that when they want to move up they change their stances on prolife, family, etc... to that that matches the national level agenda, which is evil.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='BG45' post='1413858' date='Nov 3 2007, 09:32 PM']Oh I would defend them, but I see them only as corrupt as Republicans on a national level. Individual politicians don't always stand for the ideals of their party, Democrat or Republican.[/quote]

That's probably because you haven't been paying attention. Saying that you "see only corrupt reps" at the national level shows anyone who knows the Christian faith, and who studies the national agenda of representatives of both parties that you do not know what you're talking about.

Your statement is such to the degree of if we were talking mathmatics and you boasted that 2+1 = 4.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[BG45]

[quote]That's probably because you haven't been paying attention. Saying that you "see only corrupt reps" at the national level shows anyone who knows the Christian faith, and who studies the national agenda of representatives of both parties that you do not know what you're talking about.

Your statement is such to the degree of if we were talking mathmatics and you boasted that 2+1 = 4.

God Bless,
ironmonk[/quote]

Thanks for the ad hominem attack IronMonk. I've studied both parties platforms, and yes, I agree the Republican platform lines up more with Christian values. Just because a party's platform does, does not mean that the individual politicians within that party do. My point was that there are corrupt politicians in both parties, and good politicians in both parties.

For example, there are pro-life Democrats, just as there are pro-choice Republicans. By paraphrasing me to say "see only corrupt reps" is putting words in my mouth; my point was that each party has corrupt politicians.

Anyhow, my reasoning for not replying at first had a great deal to do with what you quoted and twisted, as well as the following quote:
[quote name='tgoldson' post='1413150' date='Nov 2 2007, 08:07 AM']It's not the topic, it's the person asking the question.[/quote]


God Bless.

Edited November 4, 2007 by BG45

[Adrestia]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1413847' date='Nov 3 2007, 07:20 PM']Wrong. Maybe for yourself, but the argument presented is solid. I don't expect you to understand because you are far off in left field... maybe this is due to believing whatever you see on the news, maybe it's due to being young... I don't know what it's due to, and anylzing the why is impossible on a message board.[/quote]

I'm in my 30s. I earned full academic scholarships to college, grad school and med school. I have a PhD and an MD from a top 20 private university and my IQ score is [i]higher[/i] than yours. What I'm saying is... it's not me, it's you. I do not engage in debates with people that routinely sink to using ad hominem and ad personam attacks. It's beneath me.