Liberals Toss Away Religion So They Can Reign

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='Antones' post='1410227' date='Oct 27 2007, 07:54 PM']America needs to heal its left wing so that our country can fly!!![/quote]

America has wings....it needs its center!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1410116' date='Oct 27 2007, 12:02 PM']The other thread became much too convoluted for me to go through to make the point that liberals use escape from religion to set themselves up as a sort of diety.

The social welfare programs take people's money as taxes and give it to the poor as they see fit. Genorisity is not necessary.
The they run on fumes of moral-less ideals, such as homosexual living, sex outside of marriage, accepted infidelity and lower ages of sexual consent. This makes self-control not necessary, and familys bothor.
They want all schooling to be free so they can control it. This makes free thought impossible.
They speak of free press but then overwhelm the press with total liberalism. This makes open-mindness impossible.
They speak of our impending ecological doom, expect others to change, but do nothing themselves. It encourages the divide between the rich and the poor.

The people then become dependant on the government...there is no religion but to self...and no duty but to government.[/quote]
Hey, I totally agree.

But are you being serious here? I thought in some other thread you were saying you were actually some kind of atheist. . .

Edited October 28, 2007 by Socrates

[Autumn Dusk]

I don't believe in God, but I do follow the rules of the Catholic religion becuase I believe the rules that it teaches are a better code of conduct than any other

[Socrates]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410220' date='Oct 27 2007, 05:40 PM']
Not what I was saying. "Rich-man's" is a term used by the poor to describe the wealthy and powerful of society, such as CEO's, Board Directors, Politicians etc. Sorry, guess you gotta be among the impoverished to understand this stance.[/quote]
Many of the richest people in America are liberals, and contribute to the Democratic Party and liberal organizations: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Ted Turner, Steven Spielburg, etc., etc. And need we mention politicians like John Kerry and the Kennedies?

Trying to cast liberal vs. conservative as class warfare between the poor and rich is not accurate and is an ad-hominem cop-out to avoid discussing the real issues.

I'm far from anybody's definition of rich, yet I have no use whatsoever for socialist liberalism. I don't want a government handout; I want the government to stop taking a ridiculous share of what I make, though.

[Winchester]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410157' date='Oct 27 2007, 02:51 PM']
Autumn...how do you survive in this world, in your warped sense of reality?[/quote]
I'm no Doogie Howser, but does a warped sense of reality necessarily impair biological functions? Certainly, it can, but seeing liberals as monolithic hardly seems...wait a minute. You're the person who sees conservatives as monolithic! This is really a snide comment on your own delusions in light of someone else's.

Bravo, S)(N, Bravo!

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410157' date='Oct 27 2007, 03:51 PM']
Autumn...how do you survive in this world, in your warped sense of reality?[/quote]


I've survived more things than most people...

[PapaHilarious]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410220' date='Oct 27 2007, 04:40 PM']
Not what I was saying. "Rich-man's" is a term used by the poor to describe the wealthy and powerful of society, such as CEO's, Board Directors, Politicians etc.[/quote]

You realize Oprah [i]is[/i] the head of her own company, right?

[quote]Sorry, guess you gotta be among the impoverished to understand this stance.[/quote]

Thanks for enlightening me. From the top of my castle in the Swiss Alps, I often lose touch with the ways of "normal" people.

[Winchester]

[quote name='S][N' post='1410220' date='Oct 27 2007, 06:40 PM']
Sorry, guess you gotta be among the impoverished to understand this stance.[/quote]
Yeah. I imagine S)(N huddled by the flickering light of a turtle-fat candle, chewing on the remains of his own shoe, typing ON THE INTERNET!

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='rachael' post='1410149' date='Oct 27 2007, 12:35 PM']i think both threads are too black and white. [/quote]
Me too. Careful, though. You may get labled a moderate, which is apparently a bad thing to be. Heaven forbid you don't follow strict party lines...

[S][N]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1410340' date='Oct 27 2007, 09:54 PM']Yeah. I imagine S)(N huddled by the flickering light of a turtle-fat candle, chewing on the remains of his own shoe, typing ON THE INTERNET![/quote]

Improverished doesn't mean homeless or living in a tin shed. And I'm in no way required to tell you squat about my life experiences.

Yes...cause clearly having the internet is something only rich people have....

Way to make a fool of yourself again Winchester...lets try keep that to a 2 day minimum eh buddy!

[rachael]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1410344' date='Oct 27 2007, 11:00 PM']Me too. Careful, though. You may get labled a moderate, which is apparently a bad thing to be. Heaven forbid you don't follow strict party lines...[/quote]
So what if I am? Any way I go someone is going to tell me I am wrong...

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1410116' date='Oct 27 2007, 01:02 PM']The other thread became much too convoluted for me to go through to make the point that liberals use escape from religion to set themselves up as a sort of diety.

The social welfare programs take people's money as taxes and give it to the poor as they see fit. Genorisity is not necessary.
The they run on fumes of moral-less ideals, such as homosexual living, sex outside of marriage, accepted infidelity and lower ages of sexual consent. This makes self-control not necessary, and familys bothor.
They want all schooling to be free so they can control it. This makes free thought impossible.
They speak of free press but then overwhelm the press with total liberalism. This makes open-mindness impossible.
They speak of our impending ecological doom, expect others to change, but do nothing themselves. It encourages the divide between the rich and the poor.

The people then become dependant on the government...there is no religion but to self...and no duty but to government.[/quote]


First of all, I just want to say that i dont agree with how you are coming to some of these conclusions. It almost seems as though you are confusing conservativism with liberalism on a few things. For example, you say that liberals speak of free press then overwhelm the press with total liberalism. Then you conclude that is what makes open-mindness impossible. This to me makes no sense. Correct me if im wrong here, but when we talk about conservativism, we are talking about conforming to a universal belief (which would be quite the opposite of open-mindedness or individuality). This can be good, but at the same time it can be dangerous. You would have to assume that everything that the conservative belief style preaches is correct. Then you would have to look at how the majority of conservatives live their lives. I feel like i am being painted as a liberal, and it might be right, but at the same time, I agree with moral issues that conservatives stand for. Yet I see things that I dont like as well. For example, conservatives preach about how homosexuality is wrong. This is a good thing to preach, but at the same time, conservatives are usually the first ones to call someone a fag for being a homosexual...etc. This on the other hand is hypocritical. Those people are engaging in sin themselves by treating someone else unfairly or unjustly for their sins. I see conservativism much like a do catholicism in a way that there is a very high standard, and nobody can fully live up to that. Morality is really the only thing that I will agree with a conservative on. When it comes to the economy I will never side with a conservative (at least I think). Liberalism is a good thing in a way to when it comes to the issue of homosexuality. Liberals, like you said, dont take much of a moral stance on different issues. But, what they are trying to tell people is....homosexuals should be accepted just like anyone else. That doesnt necessarily mean that homosexuality as a sin should be accepted. It means more like the individual should be accepted for who that person is. I totally agree with this method of thinking. Perhaps conservatives should conform to this way of thinking. Personally I would prolly grow more as a conservative if this were possible.

I also dont see how you think it is wrong that liberals raise taxes in order to give to the poor...they must do it for a reason...Am I right? Maybe not enough people who have money are giving money to the poor, and liberals recognize that they should be. THEY SHOULD BE!!!

So long as the Declaration of Independance exists, no liberal or conservative will ever be able to take religion away from anybody. Religion and freedom of thought are rights that are gauranteed to all individuals who reside in the United States of America. Lets not go into the whole Liberal=communist thing again. That is a misguided thought that conservatives put into peoples heads.

I dont have much to say about the your statement about liberals and ecology. What they say is possible. And yes we prolly shouldnt let polution for corporations destroy the earth. Cant say its much of a worry for myself, but for the future it is important.

Edited October 28, 2007 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1410222' date='Oct 27 2007, 06:44 PM']Many CEO's are liberal...I include those who's bottom line places profit over people/ecological impacts[/quote]

I would say that the vast majority of people who own corporate america are Conservative. Why would they vote for a someone who is gonna tax them even more?

[Justin86]

[quote name='infinitelord1' post='1410413' date='Oct 28 2007, 03:10 PM']I would say that the vast majority of people who own corporate america are Conservative. Why would they vote for a someone who is gonna tax them even more?[/quote]
What rich person do you know has ever been evicted from their home, had their car repossessed, or lost anything because of taxes? It's the poor, the people who are just scraping by paying their bills, that suffer from them.

Being "rich" isn't all about having money in the bank(although ideally it should be, IMO). It's also a lifestyle. Many rich people don't want to see formerly poor people move up the class chain and into their neighborhoods. These people are willing to pay a little extra money to the government for social programs like welfare that 9 times out of 10 provide incentive for the poor to live off the government and not work thereby keeping them in the lower-class neighborhoods.

Edited October 28, 2007 by Justin86

[Maggyie]

Many, MANY CEOs are liberals. Target. Google. Microsoft. The list goes on. That's not to say there aren't conservatives heading companies; there's a mix of both political parties at the top. But the whole Corporate Honchos=conservatives idea is really as unfounded as the liberal=communist thing.

The reason that rich people are economic liberals is that tax increases don't really affect them. Say, because the liberals in government think the rich "should be" giving more money to the poor, they raise taxes. For Bill Gates, his income taxes will increase to 50%. Bill Gates now makes only 300 million a year instead of 600 million. Does this bother Bill Gates? Probably not. There is not a lot that you can buy for 600 million that you can't buy for 300 million. He is still fabulously wealthy. His lifestyle will continue on unaltered. Bill Gates feels good about all that tax money going to help the poor, and since it doesn't hurt him, he's all for it!

But take Joe and Jane Upper-Middle (or Middle-Middle or Lower-Middle) class. Since we have a graduated income tax, their taxes would increase by a smaller amount, say by 6%. Maybe they pay $2,500 more a year. Nothing compared to what Bill Gates had to pay! But that $2,500, for a middle class family, is a mortgage payment, a health insurance policy, a year's worth of food and clothes for the kids. Joe and Jane Middle Class are feeling the strain, and although they don't hate helping the poor, the next election cycle they vote for a Republican who will lower their taxes so that they don't lose their house.

This is why most people, when they acquire a family, become more economically conservative - if you're not the CEO of a company making millions, things can be kind of tight with the government reaching into your pocket all the time.

Of course, social justice requires that we help the marginalized in our communities- but why politicians would be qualified to determine exactly how much we should "give" (actually, how much we should have taken from us under threat of imprisonment) is beyond me.

Edited October 28, 2007 by Maggie