Lil Red Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 'kay, cuz i re-read that, and i'm thinking to myself "that makes sense in my head but i don't know if it will to anyone else." :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 bump...cause i can't finish it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeful1 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 you write beautifully hyper. although i can't say i've been in the exact situation as you, i can see how hard this is for you. I actually wanted to give you a hug while i was reading this, but since i can't do that physically i'll have to do the next best thing :group: . i don't know if this will mean anything to you, but even with all this that you are struggling with you still have a much deeper faith than i have and i truely admire you for your courage-even when all this seems impossible for you. please know i'll be keeping you in my prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muschi Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Hyperdulia- My heart and prayers go out to you! I cannot quite imagine what it is to go through the torment of what you are going through and I'm about to post some things that may seem harsh, but please understand that my heart, mind, and soul are NOT condemning you by any means. You say that it is hard to imagine not to be able to make love to whom you wish. I can understand that, but if you and you must as intelligent as you are, understand the mechanics of the human body, then perhaps you can understand on a natural level of why the Church forbids homosexual relationships, (active as far as I understand). For a man to express himself fully with another man in love sexually, is to place areas of his body where those parts are not even designed to go. This is what is popularily known as the "Natural Law". I hate to be "graphic", but if you only KNEW the things that exist that can infect you where men "love" each other most, you wouldn't do it if you really loved each other. Nor would a woman. I hope you understand what I mean by "love" and not the passion you feel toward the other person in your heart. That is a totally different story. The love we feel toward another person is in many ways influenced by our experiences growing up. I personally know of many who have a "same-sex" attraction due to horrible abuses they experienced growing up whether by those of the opposite sex OR those of the same. I DO know because I speak from experience. I had to "wrestle" with this dilemna myself. I decided not to let the pain of the past dictate my walk with God in the future, and yet I fall in so many other ways if you have read any of my other posts on this "phorum", so please know that I am no "holier-than-thou" preaching to you! There are at least two reasons why I can "reason" why homosexual sex is an abomination to God. (I speak of the sex and NOT, repeat NOT the person!!!) 1) Homosexual sex violates God's design and function of our bodies so it's like telling Him that He was wrong in how He made us. 2) By its very nature, it not only is "impotent" sex not allowing us to be fruitful and multiply, it also opens us up to infections that we would not normally get and I'm NOT speaking of AIDS here, but "normal" infections such as a bacterial infection for example. Should one who engages in these acts run from God?......NO!!! Run TO Him since He is the only one Who can help you just as He is the only One Who can help me and anyone else here on this great green earth! Know this, and please know it well. You are SO loved and treasured by God. You weren't created by mistake, nothing about you was even though it might seem like it. YOU are LOVED!!! AND you have a whole bunch of people on the so-called "cold internet" who will be keeping you before God in prayer! May His mother greatly interceed on your behalf and get ready to receive those graces you need! - With the love of Christ, - Muschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 :lol: I'm an Anglican now. But seriously...you didn't say anything I haven't heard...you didn't prove anything to me...I've heard it before, I've read it before, I've even written it before...I don't believe it... I wrote a poem, my middle name is Xavier just so ya know. There once was a boy named Xay. Since age six he knew hwas gay. The Catholics said "No way." The Anglicans said "Okay." Ok...I didn't write it...I adapted it...and no one take offense it's funny haha...new subject...Contraception? Adultery? Abortion? sumptin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 :sadder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 :sadder: but anglicans don't have the real presence :sadder: :sadder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 There's an Anglican Priest right here in Mont'y who was ordained by an Orthodox Bishop--and he voted against the resolution the Episcopal Synod/meeting/thingy passed after Bishop Robinson was elected. But really..it's different this time, I'm not even angry with the Churc, I just realize we don't agree on thi and we never will...it's better to love her from the outside than to hate her from the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Anglican or not, you're still so much holier than I am. Like you, I know how hard it is not to be Anglican when the brothers and sisters who are supposed to love you talk about how what they consider to be your "problem," or your "disease," or your "disorder" can also cause infections. As if we haven't heard that before from many other Catholics who shouldn't have said something so inappropriate and obviously insensitive. For me, my cross lately re: my wonderful brethren has been the woman who told me that she thinks gay people should fulfill their obligation to society and get married -- as in, married to those of the opposite sex, even though they have no non-platonic love for the opposite sex and no physical attraction. Because it's our societal obligation, y'know. And then, these same adorable brethren, look at us aghast when we say: "We're fed up. We can't take it anymore. We're leaving." They're perplexed. Surely we weren't offended, since they stopped short of telling us we should go get lobotomies. Wasn't that charitable enough? Fortunately, God is not these people. He doesn't call us on the phone or e-mail us to let us know what kind of infections homosexuals can get. It's just hard, sometimes, not to see the ludicrously lax laity as representatives of the Church. It's hard to see that the Church isn't quite as offensive in her official positions as the laity are in their hurtful and offensive opinions. And of course the laity pays no mind to how their insensitivity might affect the souls of Catholic homosexuals. Surely the holier-than-thou couldn't possibly offend anyone. That might mean they'd sin, and God knows they were all immaculately conceived like Mary. Or at least they think they were. Anyway, the reason you're holier than me is because you're not writing posts like these. Yes, I may still be in the Church this week, but you have been far more charitable -- again, Anglican or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Hyper I love you. I am sad that you are an Anglican. I am sad that you have to bear this cross. I hope for you more than you can know. This piece is incredible because you give voice to an anguish that cries with agony as in the Garden. Yes, in the Garden, both Gardens. In both there were tears of agony. In both there was the suffering of the heart. In both there was a choice of one side or the other. I pray that you will fall to your knees with this Agony in the Garden. I pray that you will return to us in full communion and continue the struggle . . . to hate her from within. Because even though you are outside "technically" you know that you are still within. You know that you can't help but be "within." That nothing you can ever do can seperate you from His Body, the Church. No sin can rip you from His Body, not even the sin of apostasy. So I just offer the knowledge that I will share in this agony with you. That I will tear my heart with you. That I will rent my garments for you. That I will suffer with you. That I will agonize because you have left and my suffering will hate the fact that God has not filled you with his Grace to understand how to live your life inside of his Church. I will punish myself for not loving you enough. For not being enough of a Trace of Christ to keep you close to him. I will blame myself for your leaving. And I will do penance, for myself, for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 I agree...but really it wasn't the laity this time...it was this nagging thing inside of me that wouldn't let go(the church is infallible, the Church is wrong)...it got to be too much, so i opted for the one that hurts me the least and FEELS the most graceful...lay catholics didn't help it, but they weren't the cause of it...and i'm not mad at the church or anyoe else ts time...I'm not taking Ash and Pep out of the Church (I've never taken Ashley out of the Church, I can't imagine raising a child anything other than Catholic.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Then you realize that the business of your life is not to figure out the warring ideas (not that they aren’t important), but nothing in life really matters except that moment when these treacherous little bodies of ours die and we leave this cruel, fallen, place, our muddled senses, and our contradictory ideas behind us and we are before Jesus and He says “I love you.” In that moment we can either push Him away because He’s not following the script we have written for Him and He’s not answering the questions we want answered or we can throw our arms around Him and say, “You are the greatest hunger of my soul. I want you. I don’t want to be anywhere other than your arms for the rest of eternity.” This makes me sad. You seem to be saying that I don't matter. That none of us matter. That only you matter in that last dying moment? Doesn't this life matter? Because if it doesn't . . . then why bother? Kill myself now and hope that I will accept him when he comes to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 (edited) "i agree" not with BLAZEr, with Nathan...I agree with BLAZEr that I can't really view myself as anythig other than Catholic...I'm just not up for hating her from with in...I feellike it's effecting my sanity and my physical health...as a catholic, i'm a miserable failure as a christian...as an anglican i'm a protestant with enough sense to know that the pope when he speaks ex-cathedra is infallible and that the blessed virgin is the mother of all who call themselves friends of her son. It's easier to breathe as an Anglican. Anyhoo...much love for everybody...and much love my former/future church. Edited February 13, 2004 by hyperdulia again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Nothing in life other than the response given to Christ at the end of this life does matter...one can be in grace and in friendship for fifty years before death and push him away....reject him.and thusly go to hell...one can reject him for fifty years and embrace him in that moment...if life matters it only matts insofar as it disposes us to a cerin reaction when we see him at end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 But that is not Christ's method. That is not the way the Gospels show him to us. The Christ of the Gospels comes to us in this world. He comes to us where we are and imposes on our life. Makes a demand of our attention. He comes withs and lives with us. It can't all be about the last moment. If it is only about the last moment, why does anything else matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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