Universal Health Care

[havok579257]

universal health care is a very good thing.

what's not good is any of the ways its put into practice today.

universal healthcare can and will work but not the way any country has it today.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='23 April 2010 - 11:37 PM' timestamp='1272083824' post='2099057']
universal health care is a very good thing.

what's not good is any of the ways its put into practice today.

universal healthcare can and will work but not the way any country has it today.
[/quote]
Any proposals?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='23 April 2010 - 07:35 PM' timestamp='1272072944' post='2098924']
news flash, we know it isnt free. what it is, is convenient. everyone can get the care they need, no one is bankrupted by medical issues(this is a big one) and there is premium assistance for low income people. and the bar for that isnt ridiculously low, full premium assistance comes at less than 20,000$ per year then sliding scale up to 25,000.

logistics is an issue, but one well worth working out. and frankly our society wouldnt function without people receiving low wages for base level jobs(gas station attendant, janitor, etc) so i dont mind making sure those people stay healthy.
[/quote]
The United States government, along with the various European governments are spending more than they actually can take in, and spending in most cases is rising faster than GDP.

The United States, not counting the massive Democratic party sponsored health care take over, has over 108 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, and the health care take over will inevitably add trillions more to that figure. No one in the United States, or in Europe or Canada, both of which face similar problems, wants to admit it, but we are all headed to economic collapse. America's debt to GDP ratio is now the same as that of many third world countries, and we are spending away our future today.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='23 April 2010 - 08:27 PM' timestamp='1272079662' post='2098999']
My mom had to wait 6 months just to get an MRI of her knee. That is not convenient, fair, or good health care.
[/quote]

and yet, if your mum was poor, or if the legal team at her insurance could find even the shakiest loophole to deny coverage, she would never get that MRI in the USA.


[quote name='Apotheoun' date='23 April 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1272088722' post='2099090']
The United States government, along with the various European governments are spending more than they actually can take in, and spending in most cases is rising faster than GDP.

The United States, not counting the massive Democratic party sponsored health care take over, has over 108 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, and the health care take over will inevitably add trillions more to that figure. No one in the United States, or in Europe or Canada, both of which face similar problems, wants to admit it, but we are all headed to economic collapse. America's debt to GDP ratio is now the same as that of many third world countries, and we are spending away our future today.
[/quote]

are you actually responding to my post? i know you quoted a part of it, but i dont see the connection with what you are posting. not that its a bad post, im just curious.
the United States has plenty more, and plenty deeper holes to continue throwing taxpayer money down than just healthcare. its a tired cliche, but maybe all that military spending could be possibly used to help elsewhere instead of burning money.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='24 April 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1272094935' post='2099102']
are you actually responding to my post? i know you quoted a part of it, but i dont see the connection with what you are posting. not that its a bad post, im just curious.
the United States has plenty more, and plenty deeper holes to continue throwing taxpayer money down than just healthcare. its a tired cliche, but maybe all that military spending could be possibly used to help elsewhere instead of burning money.
[/quote]
Yes, I am. I am simply pointing out that the government controlled health care systems in Western countries are unsustainable, and that they will lead to both rationing of care (i.e., to various forms of euthanasia) and to economic collapse.

If the USA dropped all military spending its national debt would still double over the next ten years.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='24 April 2010 - 09:52 AM' timestamp='1272117121' post='2099185']
the government controlled health care systems in Western countries are [b]unsustainable[/b][/quote]
And they have a big [i]carbon footprint[/i] which contributes to [i]global warming[/i].

[Apotheoun]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKhdGiT_bY[/media]

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 April 2010 - 01:18 AM' timestamp='1272086338' post='2099078']
Any proposals?
[/quote]


universal healthcare with a viable opt out option. being able to buy insurance across state lines. elimination of medicaid for adults. universal healthcare only for those who actually need it and respect it and don't abuse the system like the drunks who purposely abuse the system (such as going to the hosital 3 times a day for 365 days of the year. this happens more than anyone not in healthcare knows.)

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='24 April 2010 - 12:18 PM' timestamp='1272129519' post='2099235']
universal healthcare with a viable opt out option. being able to buy insurance across state lines. elimination of medicaid for adults. universal healthcare only for those who actually need it and respect it and don't abuse the system like the drunks who purposely abuse the system (such as going to the hosital 3 times a day for 365 days of the year. this happens more than anyone not in healthcare knows.)
[/quote]
By having a viable opt out system, do you mean that a person could choose for any reason not to pay taxes directed towards healthcare, and would instead be free to deal with healthcare exclusively through private providers with no connection to the government?

[Winchester]

We have universal health care. There is no one barred from seeking health care, from attempting to make deals with doctors or hospitals for treatment. I don't think anyone should be barred by law from receiving health care.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' date='26 October 2007 - 09:41 AM' timestamp='1193406102' post='1409599']
Since nobody's responded to this before, do you realized how VERY poor you have to be to get medcaid? You pretty much have to be on welfare. Its very possible that a highschool student that was kicked out by mentally ill/abusive/lazy/negletful...you name it...parents, this student who works at part time job between 20-35 hours, rents a studio apt, and continues their highschool education will NOT qualify. They will struggle between bills (food, electricity, heating) just to keep a roof over their head and try to do more. There is no tv, no internet, etc. Its a grim existance.
Thing is if you have a baby out of wedlock, then the government may start to care for the sake of the kid, but until then you're on your own.
Its no better for college students in this prediciment. They are pretty much helpless when it comes to health care...it dosn't exist. Some colleges offer basic health care (if you have a case of the sniffles) but thats the extent of it.
Someone over, say, 25 who's struggling trying to live on their own without a hs education, through no fault of their own working 2 jobs to try and get some money to finish their education...even if they put every extra cent of that money into a college only fund will not be eligable for health care.

"Very poor" dosn't even describe how poor you have to be to qualify for medicaid
[/quote]
I might have already responded to this, but I'm going to respond directly to this post, perhaps again, because it is utterly devoid of perspective or sense.

For 12 years now I have worked with welfare recipients, the vast majority of whom have housing, elecricity, indoor plumbing and more than adequate food. By vast majority, I mean everyone but a few homeless. A smaller, but still significant majority of these people also had cable, technologically current televisions, vehicles (with which they followed the ambulance to the hospital), cell phones, and various and sundry luxuries. The respect with which the majority treat their entitlements is dreadful.

Adusk's post is the result of disconnected bleeding heart idiocy. This qualifies the poster to occupy a senate seat and vote for more handouts.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Winchester

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 April 2010 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1272129889' post='2099238']
By having a viable opt out system, do you mean that a person could choose for any reason not to pay taxes directed towards healthcare, and would instead be free to deal with healthcare exclusively through private providers with no connection to the government?
[/quote]


that if someone chose to buy thier own insurance then they are not responsible for paying for the universal healthcare aside from the medicare taxes we already pay. so no new taxes imposed on the people who opt out and get private insurance.

[Nihil Obstat]

I don't understand how medicaid works. Anyone willing to explain it really briefly?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 April 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1272133520' post='2099272']
I don't understand how medicaid works. Anyone willing to explain it really briefly?
[/quote]
if u don't have much money you can maybe get this card that lets u go to the doctor.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 April 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1272133520' post='2099272']
I don't understand how medicaid works. Anyone willing to explain it really briefly?
[/quote]
1. You decide not to work.
2. You get medicaid.
3. You complain that you actually have to go get your prescriptions filled yourself.
4. You call an ambulance and go to the hospital so you can get your prescription filled. The hospital gives you a bus voucher because you can't be expected to pay even the couple of bucks it takes to ride the bus.
5. You go home, don't take your meds, but go buy some beer.
6. When you feel bad, you call 911.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Winchester