Are You Ready For God's Judgement On All Religions And Governments

[GodChaser]

[quote]In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)[/quote]

Have you ever heard someone say something, and you didn't feel right about it. There was a knot in your stomach telling you not to trust that person, or to do something, and you did it anyways, and it ended up going bad for you?

Have you ever heard a doctrine, and it just didn't sit right with you, or you heard a pastor/priest say something, and it felt plain wrong, like he shouldn't want or desire that. Have you?

Jesus said that out of our bellies shall flow rivers of living water.

When I think of the Pope saying catholics are morally obligated to reduce the so-called green house gas emissions, I feel, that is evil. He shouldn't make it a moral obligation, because the science is inconclusive on this. So basically he is saying, I know global warming is happening (and the pope can be wrong on science) and you must do something (even though scientists are divided 50/50 on this)

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2066711,00.html"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2066711,00.html[/url]
[url="http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/10/opinion/edlet.php"]http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/10/opinion/edlet.php[/url]
[url="http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=24053"]http://www.catholic.org/international/inte...ry.php?id=24053[/url]

Despite there are articles and movies like this

[url="http://ff.org/centers/csspp/library/co2weekly/20051117/20051128_12.htm"]http://ff.org/centers/csspp/library/co2wee...20051128_12.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.globalwarmingglobalgovernance.com/"]http://www.globalwarmingglobalgovernance.com/[/url]
[url="http://disinter.wordpress.com/2007/08/16/global-warming-or-global-governance/"]http://disinter.wordpress.com/2007/08/16/g...bal-governance/[/url]

Wow, what a great guy. Unless you fight something that may or may not be happening, you're going to hell, and I do believe you must obey the Pope if he says this is a moral obligation. Don't you find it absurd? He can make an issue nobody is sure about sure enough to be a heaven or hell issue?

This doesn't feel right to me, does it make sense to you?

When your church doesn't make sense anymore, God says you must come out of it. You must come out of it, if there is even the slightest amount of corruption. Are you going to be a part of a church God is going to judge, because he knows the global warming debate is filled with lies, and Pope Benedict is making this an issue if you don't fight a non-existant issue than you're going to hell.

[Mateo el Feo]

Maybe you spend a little too much time reading blogs?

In any event, it seems like your citations of the pope making "moral obligations" are just the result of the collective imagination of pundits who are speculating what the pope will say when he addresses the UN next year.

In all of your diatribe, you failed to provide a single direct quote from the pope himself. Let me remind you of a Christian teaching: "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Have you ever heard of this before?

If you'd like a place to start for quotes from the pope, feel free to visit this website:

[url="http://www.vatican.va/"]http://www.vatican.va/[/url]

Probably the most incriminating papal quotes one can find on the subject is his asking that Christians be "good stewards" of Creation. Heaven forbid.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1402512' date='Oct 14 2007, 08:08 PM']Maybe you spend a little too much time reading blogs?

In any event, it seems like your citations of the pope making "moral obligations" are just the result of the collective imagination of pundits who are speculating what the pope will say when he addresses the UN next year.

In all of your diatribe, you failed to provide a single direct quote from the pope himself. Let me remind you of a Christian teaching: "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Have you ever heard of this before?

If you'd like a place to start for quotes from the pope, feel free to visit this website:

[url="http://www.vatican.va/"]http://www.vatican.va/[/url]

Probably the most incriminating papal quotes one can find on the subject is his asking that Christians be "good stewards" of Creation. Heaven forbid.[/quote]

Good stewards, I can accept that.

I don't believe global warming is man made, because Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and even Pluto have all have the same kinds of temprature increases that the earth has had. Interesting, this must mean, that global warming is a hoax, and any support of this is a sign of bad leadership of the Pope, and definite infulence of the system of lies we are inbedded into.

Wake up.

About 600 years ago, global warming happened, and greenland experienced a increase in food production and more people were born, and there was more life. It was wonderful. But it isn't anymore. It's bad! We got to get rid of it! Can't have more life on earth, that is bad.

Bad, Bad, people, getting married, having children, enjoying their lives!

He's for a type of thinking that will harm us. And you agree with him. I guess the road to hell is paved with good intentions!

[hyperdulia again]

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Edited October 15, 2007 by hyperdulia again

[XIX]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1402533' date='Oct 14 2007, 10:24 PM']????????????????????????????????????????????
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[mortify]

On the Last Day I plan to stand with Mary, the Apostles, Martyrs, Fathers, Doctors, Saints, and Laity who have held on to the deposit of faith and kept communion with Christ's Vicar... who will you stand with? Yourself?

[GodChaser]

[url="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html"]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/plut...ing_021009.html[/url]
[url="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060504_red_jr.html"]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060504_red_jr.html[/url]
[url="http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20061109-022035-4126r"]http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?Stor...09-022035-4126r[/url]
[url="http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980526052143data_trunc_sys.shtml"]http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/199805260...trunc_sys.shtml[/url]
[url="http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/092897/study.htm"]http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/092897/study.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html[/url]

Wow, 6 articles showing that global warming is a solar system wide, and you believe that global warming is man-made! LOL! Are you that dense. Wake up. These are not conspiracy sites, but actual science websites.

And the Pope is telling Catholics you need to be good stewards in the fight of global warming. LOL! Yeah, I'll be a good steward of God's Creation by saying, more CO2 can produce more crops.

[url="http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/co2plant.htm"]http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/co2plant.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/07/980715084612.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/...80715084612.htm[/url]

Why are so many people producing bad science when the evidence shows a solar system wide global warming trend? Why is the Pope going to make such a big deal out of this?

[GodChaser]

[quote name='mortify' post='1402553' date='Oct 14 2007, 08:36 PM']On the Last Day I plan to stand with Mary, the Apostles, Martyrs, Fathers, Doctors, Saints, and Laity who have held on to the deposit of faith and kept communion with Christ's Vicar... who will you stand with? Yourself?[/quote]
With all the saints, and martyrs, and jesus himself.

I hope to see you there too. But be ready, God may be ready to pull the plug on this world order soon. There is going to be a night that 1/4 of the population of the planet is going to die. The fourth seal judgement will be unleashed, and you might die in that event. Be ready. When the Pope tells you to disarm, don't. When the Pope says, we need to submit to our governments, don't. When the pope says you have to accept martial law, don't.

Because if you do, that's lights out when the world order decides to rapture Christians, and I believe this will include catholics! You're not bad, and you're just an honest person who loves god. I don't believe Benedict is though.

[Mateo el Feo]

For the purpose of this thread, [b]I really don't care what your arguments/views on global warming are[/b]. The key issues are:

1) You've attempted to characterize the current pope as someone who is out to condemn people to hell, yet you can't quote him directly. Even your sources don't dare quote him directly. Doesn't that strike you as odd?
2) You hold a position that the Catholic Church is an evil Babylon Religion, and seem to use this as a starting point when you go out to do "fact finding." Not terribly convincing, I'm afraid.

Proof of your detachment from reality is when you claim that the pope is against couples having children. Honestly, Catholics bear the brunt of attacks by anti-life advocates when they decry the pope for promoting parenthood. Take a look at some of the results of this Google Search:

[url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pope+contraception+children+cathol"]Google Search=(pope contraception children catholic)[/url]

I didn't "hand pick" the results, but I think they should be informative on this subject.

Maybe you've been subjected to a few too many anti-Catholic sermons/tracts/whatever. I know that there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding Catholicism. I (and I'm sure others here) would be happy to address the concerns you have. I would just ask that you present these issues one at a time, as opposed to the machine-gun approach, which generally doesn't do anything to advance understanding.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1402570' date='Oct 14 2007, 08:48 PM']For the purpose of this thread, [b]I really don't care what your arguments/views on global warming are[/b]. The key issues are:

1) You've attempted to characterize the current pope as someone who is out to condemn people to hell, yet you can't quote him directly. Even your sources don't dare quote him directly. Doesn't that strike you as odd?
2) You hold a position that the Catholic Church is an evil Babylon Religion, and seem to use this as a starting point when you go out to do "fact finding." Not terribly convincing, I'm afraid.

Proof of your detachment from reality is when you claim that the pope is against couples having children. Honestly, Catholics bear the brunt of attacks by anti-life advocates when they decry the pope for promoting parenthood. Take a look at some of the results of this Google Search:

[url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pope+contraception+children+cathol"]Google Search=(pope contraception children catholic)[/url]

I didn't say that. You must be reading into something. I didn't say the Pope said that, but if you listen to some of these hardcore environmentalists saying, taxes for having children, you might change your toon.

[url="http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30472039.htm"]http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30472039.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070418115227.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/...70418115227.htm[/url]
[url="http://andwillowmakes3.blogspot.com/2007/09/global-warming-and-chinas-one-child.html"]http://andwillowmakes3.blogspot.com/2007/0...-one-child.html[/url]
[url="http://www.blogcatalog.com/post-tag/one%20child%20policy"]http://www.blogcatalog.com/post-tag/one%20child%20policy[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKSP5PtUGKw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKSP5PtUGKw[/url]

and

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohMWXmI19hE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohMWXmI19hE[/url]

Too quote someone who is big into environmentalism

[quote]racingtadpole (5 months ago)

"THE TRUTH - YOU Can't handle the truth"

WE HAVE TO STOP HAVING SO MANY CHILDREN, THE HUMAN RACE IS OVERPOPULATED SEVERLY OVERPOPULATED, GOOGLE THE WORLD POPULATION CLOCK, AND LOOK FOR YOURSELVES[/quote]

I didn't "hand pick" the results, but I think they should be informative on this subject.

Maybe you've been subjected to a few too many anti-Catholic sermons/tracts/whatever. I know that there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding Catholicism. I (and I'm sure others here) would be happy to address the concerns you have. I would just ask that you present these issues one at a time, as opposed to the machine-gun approach, which generally doesn't do anything to advance understanding.
[/quote]

I don't accept evil. I don't care what religion it is involved with, but I don't accept evil.

If Pope Benedict wants to fight climate change, what will you do, if he says, you know China's one-child policy is a good way to do it? He can't of course, but that is what he is leading up too.

Enviornmentalism is a religion, and its a religion that says that the human race is a disease on the planet, and we need to be eradictated off the planet. If the Pope is even partially for it, he has accepted it.

I only stand for the truth, and it seems you can't handle the truth of Environmentalism = Eugenics, and we need to weed out the bad for the good. . .

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1402533' date='Oct 14 2007, 07:24 PM']????????????????????????????????????????????
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ditto

provide direct quotes from the Pope please.

[Deo Iuvente]

Sir you have to PROVE THAT THE POPE SAID IT.
Direct quote. you can't use possibly biased sites, that don't quote him.You're resorting to logical fallacies. You can't continue to assume your first premise, and use it to support your second. Or assume your second, and use it to support your first. That's argumentum ad Circulum (Circular logic).PLease offer A direct quote from the pope where he said this, and defined it as a dogma.
You can't put on ignore well known catholic morality that says eugenics, contraception, and other ways of limiting life are "inherently evil" and are mortal sins in order to support your ideology.

[GodChaser]

Here are some direct quotes

[quote]From [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2066711,00.html"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2066711,00.html[/url]

[b]The Vatican yesterday added its voice to a rising chorus of warnings from churches around the world that climate change and abuse of the environment is against God's will, and that the one billion-strong Catholic church must become far greener.[/b]
At a Vatican conference on climate change, Pope Benedict urged bishops, scientists and politicians - including UK environment secretary David Miliband - to "respect creation" while "focusing on the needs of sustainable development".

and

The Pope's message follows a series of increasingly strong statements about climate change and the environment, including a warning earlier this year that "disregard for the environment always harms human coexistence, and vice versa".
Observers said yesterday that the Catholic church is no longer split between those who advocate development and those who say the environment is the priority. Cardinal Renato Raffaele Martino, head of the Pontifical Council of Justice and Peace, said: "For environment ... read Creation. The mastery of man over Creation must not be despotic or senseless. Man must cultivate and safeguard God's Creation."[/quote]

So, unless the newspaper is misquoting him, where do you get off saying I am lying. . .

These are people who are saying, you need to safeguard the creation by fighting global warming. Or am I wrong? If the Pope is saying it, doesn't that make you obligated in doing that?

And what about

[quote][url="http://www"]http://www[/url].[b]catholic[/b].org/international/international_story.php?id=24053

UNITED NATIONS (Catholic Online) – The world community must address the threat posed by global warming and build more sustainable economies or face the continued drift toward tensions, conflicts and a crisis in the very existence of peoples, the Vatican told the member countries of the United Nations.


In an May 10 statement to the U.N. Economic and Social Council’s Commission on Sustainable Development on “Turning Political Commitments into Action, Working together in Partnership,” Archbishop Celestino Migliore, apostolic nuncio of the Holy See’s permanent mission to the U.N., stressed that the scientific evidence for global warming and mankind’s role in the increase of greenhouse gasses “becomes ever more unimpeachable” and its effects already impacting the world community.

“The consequences of climate change are being felt not only in the environment, but in the entire socio-economic system, Archbishop Migliore said, noting that “such activity has a profound relevance, not just for the environment, but in ethical, economic, social and political terms as well.”

Global warming, he said, “will impact first and foremost the poorest and weakest who, even if they are among the least responsible for global warming, are the most vulnerable because they have limited resources or live in areas at greater risk.”

The issues surrounding climate change are far-reaching, the Vatican nuncio said, pointing to the connection between it and the drive to acquire and consume energy and water resources and protecting human health and the environment.

“The earth is our common heritage and we have a grave and far-reaching responsibility to ourselves and to future generations,” he said.

The international community, Archbishop Migliore said, must come to terms to establish a “common, global, long-term energy strategy, capable of satisfying legitimate short- and medium-term energy requirements, ensuring energy security, protecting human health and the environment and establishing precise commitments to address the question of climate change.”

The nuncio spoke with some urgency, noting that the U.N. Security Council recently dealt with the relationship of energy, security and climate change.

“We are already witnessing struggles for the control of strategic resources such as oil and fresh water, both of which are becoming ever scarcer,” he said.

“If we refuse to build sustainable economies now, we will continue to drift towards more tensions and conflicts over resources,” Archbishop Migliore warned, pointing to “many of the most vulnerable societies already facing energy problems” “and to the threatened “very existence of coastal peoples and small island states.”

To meet the “double challenge” of climate change and the need for “ever greater energy resources, the nuncio called for the world community to embrace more sustainable development in which there is a much closer link between “natural ecology, or respect for nature, and human ecology.”

“We will have to change our present model from one of the heedless pursuit of economic growth in the name of development, towards a model which heeds the consequences of its actions and is more respectful towards the creation we hold in common, coupled with an integral human development for present and future generations,” he said.

“Experience shows that disregard for the environment harms human coexistence,” the archbishop said, adding that the international community must make the connection between making “peace with creation and peace among nations.”

He stressed the importance of technology and education to build a more sustainable economy.

“Economic growth does not have to mean greater consumption,” Archbishop Migliore said. “It does however mean that we will need technology, ingenuity, determined political will and common sense.”

He added that it will also mean the transference of technology to developing countries “to the benefit of the entire global community.”

But beyond the development of technology and the “political will” to collaborate internationally, education at the level of each nation is required to ensure that the mankind “approach our daily patterns of consumption and production in a very different way.”

“Through such education, states can help their citizens grasp the urgency of what must be done, teaching them in turn to expect and demand a very different approach to their own consumption and that around them,” he said.

He noted that “we cannot simply uninvent the modern world,” but that there is the chance to remedy the “worldwide, unprecedented ecological changes” already taking place.

“None of us can foresee fully the consequences of man’s industrial activity over the recent centuries,” he noted. “But there is still time to use technology and education to promote universally sustainable development before it is too late.

Archbishop Migliore addressed the issue of sustainable development and global climate change before the U.N. General Assembly last fall, noting that the world needs to undergo an “ecological conversion” or face the consequences of the global life support systems being irreparably destroyed.

He stressed that the international economy is directly connected to global environmental health and that time is running out to make the systemic changes needed.

“The environmental consequences of our economic activity are now among the world’s highest priorities,” Archbishop Migliore said.

The world’s “economy continues to rest basically upon its relation to nature,” and in particular to its impact on the earth’s soil, water and climate, the archbishop said.

“It is becoming rapidly ever clearer that if these, the world’s life support systems, are spoiled or destroyed irreparably, there will be no viable economy for any of us,” the apostolic nuncio said.

He criticized the tendency of national policy makers to view ecological issues as “external or marginal” to economic considerations.

“Environmental concerns have to be understood,” the archbishop said, “as the basis upon which all economic – and even human – activity rests.”

“The environmental question is not only an important ethical and scientific problem,” he said, but one that impacts political, economic, security strategy, developmental and humanitarian issues at regional, national and international levels.

“In a word, the world needs an ecological conversion so as to examine critically current models of thought, as well as those of production and consumption,” Archbishop Migliore said.

While acknowledging that the international community has placed greater emphasis on developing renewable energy sources, clean technologies and sustainable development strategies into policy-making, the nuncio stressed that all nations “must do much more to stop and reverse current trends in consumption and pollution.”

Pope Benedict XVI addressed the issue two months later in his World Peace Day 2007 message.

In the wide-ranging "The Human Person, the Heart of Peace," dated Jan. 1 and released Dec. 8, Benedict tied “the ecology of nature” with “human ecology” and “social ecology,” noting the “inseparable link between peace with creation and peace among men.”

“Disregard for the environment always harms human coexistence,” the pope said. “There is an inseparable link between peace with creation and peace among men.”

Concerning the environment, he pointed specifically to “the increasingly serious problem of energy supplies” and to the “unprecedented race for available resources” by some nations and blockage to resources impacting the development of other nations.

“The destruction of the environment, its improper or selfish use, and the violent hoarding of the earth's resources cause grievances, conflicts and wars, precisely because they are the consequences of an inhumane concept of development,” the pope said.

“Indeed, if development were limited to the technical-economic aspect, obscuring the moral-religious dimension, it would not be an integral human development, but a one-sided distortion which would end up by unleashing man's destructive capacities,” he said.[/quote]

Interesting. Catholic.org article. A Holy see representative. If the arch bishop in this article wasn't representing the Pope's interests, then who is he representing, and wouldn't he be in trouble.

He says the data is complete and non-debateable, which isn't the case. The Representative of the Pope said this, and that means the Pope wanted him to say it, and if he wanted him to say it, he must also be held responsible for this teaching.

So pretty much, you have to accept that Global warming, a lie, is truth and do our part to help fight it, if you are Catholic. Or that makes you a bad catholic!

If you can't see the writting on the wall, I shall weep for you. I shall weep and lament the lies that have taken hold in your mind.

Edited October 15, 2007 by GodChaser

[Deo Iuvente]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1402627' date='Oct 14 2007, 09:34 PM']Here are some direct quotes[/quote] No, not direct quotes. those quotes come from a news service, and the possibility of corruption exists. We've told you that you could find the pope's angelus addresses/sermons on the vatican website. Please go there and direct them to us.

[quote]So, unless the newspaper is misquoting him,[/quote] Which of course, you don't deny is entirely impossble since they've misquoted him several time this year.
[quote]where do you get off saying I am lying. . .[/quote] Maybe from you ignoring the fact that your statements don;t logically follow, or that you ignore evidence that contradicts your claims, or that you often fail to provide any evidence/substantial evidence for your claims, and resort to calumny and personal attacks to support your claims?

[quote]These are people who are saying,[/quote] Exactly. these are PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING. they are'nt Pope Benedict XVI Making a doctrinal statement [i]Ex Cathedral[/i] on it. An article that says that the pope said something does not prove that it was said. I could write an article where I supposedly quote you saying that you want to become a Papist, but I don't provide direct from your mouth statements that can be backed up authoritatively,and I ignore that you believe that god hates the catholic church and would never join it. [quote]need to safeguard the creation by fighting global warming. Or am I wrong? If the Pope is saying it, doesn't that make you obligated in doing that?[/quote]No, if the pope is saying it it DOES NOT mean that we are obligated to obey, or believe, hence [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm"]Ex Cathedra.[/url] I've said it before, not every teaching of the pope fall under papal infallibility.

[quote]The Representative of the Pope said this, and that means the Pope wanted him to say it,[/quote] Dicto simpliciter. That's a logically fallacy. the pope has been misrepresented by vatican officials before (The Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, for example). You can't assume "Well, this guy who represent the pope said something, so that means the pope wanted him to say it" Because
1) It's nearly impossible to prove, since you know neither the nuncio or the pope
2)It is completely possible for him to represent things that are not the pope's interest (Hence his distaste of the tridentine mass)
Thirdly, where do you get off saying that Catholic.org is a representative of the holy see? Vatican news is the representative of the vatican.
You can't jump to a conclusion based upon falsified information.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Deo Iuvente

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1402584' date='Oct 14 2007, 11:02 PM']If Pope Benedict wants to fight climate change, what will you do, if he says, you know China's one-child policy is a good way to do it? He can't of course, but that is what he is leading up too.[/quote]So you're going to condemn my religion because of a speculation about something that you admit is never going to happen?

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1402584' date='Oct 14 2007, 11:02 PM']Enviornmentalism is a religion, and its a religion that says that the human race is a disease on the planet, and we need to be eradictated off the planet. If the Pope is even partially for it, he has accepted it.[/quote]Again...wow! So, if [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/leviticus/leviticus25.htm#v4"]Leviticus[/url] gives instructions on leaving crop land fallow every seven years in order to yield more fruitful, should we conclude that this is also part of the religion of Environmentalism? Do you condemn the Pentateuch as well?

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1402584' date='Oct 14 2007, 11:02 PM']I only stand for the truth, and it seems you can't handle the truth of Environmentalism = Eugenics, and we need to weed out the bad for the good. . .[/quote]Aside from the grandstanding, that was a pretty funny pun.