House Cleaning Part 1

[bmb144]

Hi all,

As some of you have seen on open mic, I'm in the middle of some spiritual house cleaning and I'm bringing some questions here. So here goes-

If I look at my former Catholic spiritual life I would have to say I had very little to no relationship with Jesus. I felt a connection to the Father [and still do] and a sense of connection to the Holy Spirit, and others...but Jesus, well no.

If I really get snarky with myself I would say that I really didn't know Jesus what-so-ever, felt no connection and didn't care one bit about that. Well the world turns and I'm back at uni [college] and I'm doing undergrad Christian theology and guess what first subject is....yep, Intro to NT with a tonne of Jesus in it.

So I'm questioning and wondering. And here is my question, exactly who is Jesus really? And what does he mean to you?

Thanks,
Belinda

[Maggyie]

It's weird 'cuz I had similar issues. After I started going to Church, I had a problem with the Jesus relationship thing as well. I had a very, very deep relationship with God the Father and a bit of one with God the Spirit, but Jesus? He seemed kinda... "cheesy" to me. For lack of a better word. But He was mentioned all over the Bible, all over the Mass, and He is obviously the main part of the whole Christian thing. So I was kinda worried about how we had nothing going together.

Eventually, as I continued to go to Mass I really figured out Who He is. For me, His character is best seen in the Eucharist. He is Someone who is full of power and glory but Who reaches down to me in the very humble forms of bread and wine. He doesn't force Himself on me, He just invites me to receive Him. He is not content with a intellectual relationship, He wants the deepest possible communion with me, and lets me consume Him physically. Through this communion, He ties me with all the billions of other Christians who have believed and received Him through history, and makes us all one family.

His Presence never leaves the church and is always there, waiting, the most constant and patient friend I've ever had. He doesn't get sick of my complaining. He's happy to listen. He wants to advise me, to guide me, to comfort me, and to make me holy.

I know it's not very theological, but that's who He is to me

[Aloysius]

God is Love. God is eternal. God is the Creator. Thus, He exists outside of time and thus "before" there was anything else. But God is Love, and Love is not selfish; therefore, God must have had something other than "self" to love outside of His creation, since He exists "before" he ever created anything else. Out of this eternal love, there is a "begetting before all ages"... an "eternally begotten" Son of God the Father... so that His Love flows as selfless energy. This eternally begotten Son is most precious to God the Father. The Son is consubstantial as God as well, because of His being begotten from the Father before all ages. They are one God, but the energy of their mutual love flows unselfishly because of their distinction.

To understand Jesus, you have to understand how precious The Eternal Son is to The Eternal Father, and then see how precious mankind is to Him as well. Jesus is the image of the invisible God, He is the incarnation, He is that which makes God visible to us. The beautiful gift of the Son to His adopted Sons, to redeem our material world. Through His incarnation, divinity is infused into humanity, and humanity can be absorbed into the Sonship of the Eternal Son, we become united to that which is most precious to God the Father.

One cannot have a relationship with God as Father unless one united Himself to the Son. One can only have a relationship to God as Creator, but not as Father. You may lose sight sometimes of the role Jesus plays in that, the role that uniting to Jesus plays in your understanding of God as Father; but I recommend that you investigate it more and realize that without Jesus, you are not a son of the Father, you are a creation of the Creator. God did not beget you, He created you.

[Starets]

I see you already have two answers. I think what maggie and alysius said is ok but I would add one other thing to what they've said. I ve been thinking of the implications of "fully God and fully Man" lately. 100% God and 100% Man in perfect union. Not some sort of composite! That is part of what the Incarnation is all about.

First of all, for me its that He's "been there and done that". He has experienced everything that a person can experience. He has also, by virtue of having lived on this earth for 33 years, experienced the effects of sin without himself sinning. He understands. He was tempted. Yet he did not himself fall into sin.

He also suffered greatly and was innocent. I too have suffered but sometimes my sufferings have been my own fault. So He can empathise with me in my suffering when I am suffering (I'm not at the moment thanks )

Not only that, in his suffering, he could have stopped it with the bat of an eye, if He chose to but didn't. He was in full union with the will of God even with the stress the Passion was putting on his human body. That, among many other things, demonstrates a level of compassion and fellowfeeling that I can barely even begin to comprehend.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='In His Light' post='1401621' date='Oct 13 2007, 04:59 AM']So I'm questioning and wondering. And here is my question, exactly who is Jesus really?[/quote]My short-and-sweet answer is, read the four Gospel accounts of Jesus. That's gonna help move you a bit closer to your answer.

[quote name='In His Light' post='1401621' date='Oct 13 2007, 04:59 AM']And what does he mean to you?[/quote]Who is Jesus to me? He is Love Incarnate. He is the perfect example of all the virtues. In a nutshell, that's who he is to me.

BTW, forgive me for skipping over stuff like "He is God, He is my Savior." I don't mean to minimize these things, but they are a given for every Christian, so I figured I'd think of some other attributes of Jesus that my own spirituality seems to naturally center on.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[Totus Tuus]

If you want to know Jesus, read the Gospels. Ask Our Lady to reveal Him to you. Watch "The Passion of the Christ". Basically, I would do those three things in that order.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[theophane]

Belinda,

You've already gotten some very good answers here. I'm not very good at expressing myself in writing, unfortunately, so I won't add my own. However, I would like to encourage you by saying that I've been in a similar position, and it was wonderful for me. When I look back at my life, I realize that before each deep movement of God there has been that feeling of "going back to the basics". Stripping away the false or superficial, addressing the deepest question, always results in a profound experience of God, in my opinion. You seem to be very honestly searching. You have my prayers and many others, I imagine. Go find your answer. You won't be disappointed.

[bmb144]

Thanks for the responses so far. The thing is I've already done what most of you say and more than once, yet I'm back at square one with no real understanding of who, what and why?

So does anyone else have anything to say?


Belinda

[123]

My relationship with Christ has defiantly been a roller coaster. I study world religions and psychology for my future degree and I felt that all religions have this form of a Savior that says that they can achieve lasting faith and peaceful salvation only if they lay claim to "this specific" religion. However, the Catholic Church doesn't teach that Christ is the only one, but that his grace and glory encompasses all that is right and beautiful.

Remember, Belinda being confused as to whether you don't know Christ or you do is faith. Faith is not believing everyday of your life with no errors, because you always have to work at faith everyday.

Work out your salvation though fear and trembling. Phil 2:12

Ora et Labora' - Work and Pray

Edited October 16, 2007 by GloriaIesusChristi

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='In His Light' post='1403480' date='Oct 16 2007, 04:30 AM']Thanks for the responses so far. The thing is I've already done what most of you say and more than once, yet I'm back at square one with no real understanding of who, what and why?

So does anyone else have anything to say?
Belinda[/quote]
I was raised as nothing of a nominally Jewish father and a nominally Christian (Protestant) mother, and thus had no real spiritual / religious underpinning other than what I absorbed through osmosis from the general culture.

When I was 19, I was going through a particularly hard time in my life. I had been given a Gideon New Testament - KJV, naturally - and in the beginning of it there were references to passages to turn to when feeling whatever it was you were feeling. In my case, it was "overwhelmed," a passage for which was Rm. 8:31-39:

[i]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/i]

The two crucial things about this passage were that God loved me, and that God loved me through Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus to me? He's the person, the God, who would stretch out His arms of love and move mountains, heaven and earth, planets, stars, galaxies, universes, in order that we would not be separated from Him or His love.

Edited October 16, 2007 by kenrockthefirst

[thessalonian]

[quote name='In His Light' post='1403480' date='Oct 16 2007, 05:30 AM']Thanks for the responses so far. The thing is I've already done what most of you say and more than once, yet I'm back at square one with no real understanding of who, what and why?

So does anyone else have anything to say?
Belinda[/quote]

Apparently you have not experienced God's mercy through him as I have. Noone knows the Father except through him, so I would question whether you have a real relationship with the Father as you claim. He is God's plan for our salvation and you don't understand God if you don't understand Christ. We cannot have a true, full relationship with whom we don't know. I guess your posts make me wonder if you understand and deal with the seriousness of sin. How much it hurts the Father and how much we need the blood of his son, he allowed to be sacrificed to it to heal the wounds of our sin. Whether we know that what we do is sin or not does not change the fact that it wounds us greatly and actually separates us from the Father.

Blessings

[bmb144]

Thanks everyone. I found him.

[Starets]

[jeffpugh]