Gay Cancer

[Jaime]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1401714' date='Oct 13 2007, 02:45 PM']*rings bell* she's right![/quote]


you need a new bell

[hyperdulia again]

Well, I'm a homosexual so my bell is inclined to ring inappropriately, so usually I just don't let it ring at all. A new bell might be appropriate, but I'd rather keep my faulty bell and not ring it. So there.

[Jaime]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1401717' date='Oct 13 2007, 02:50 PM']Well, I'm a homosexual so my bell is inclined to ring inappropriately, so usually I just don't let it ring at all. A new bell might be appropriate, but I'd rather keep my faulty bell and not ring it. So there.[/quote]

Well then I would think you would agree that there is a vast difference between objectively disordered desires and stating someone has intrinsically disordered desires.

so there

[hyperdulia again]

Doesn't the Church use the phrase "intrinsically disordered" how is a disordered inclination
intrinsic and not objective. I dunno..I just know I can't watch Brad Pitt movies.

[Jaime]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1401724' date='Oct 13 2007, 02:56 PM']Doesn't the Church use the phrase "intrinsically disordered" how is a disordered inclination
intrinsic and not objective. I dunno..I just know I can't watch Brad Pitt movies. [/quote]

A desire is not intrinsically disordered. Please read the quotes prior from the bishop's pastoral letter on homosexuality and the Catechism.

Then write a very long book about it

[hyperdulia again]

You really have to forgive me for the "heretic" thing I'd hate for us to not be able to be friends. I am very capable of deeply sinful resentments and irrational dislikes. I will read the Pastoral Letter you referenced.

[Jaime]

[quote name='hyperdulia again' post='1401733' date='Oct 13 2007, 03:02 PM']You really have to forgive me for the "heretic" thing I'd hate for us to not be able to be friends. I am very capable of deeply sinful resentments and irrational dislikes. I will read the Pastoral Letter you referenced.[/quote]


I'm sorry too Hyper. The book comment was snarky


And the brad pitt comment was funny!

[hyperdulia again]

[premed_jakey]

Let us not also forget what the Holy Father has to say. Yes, I realize that not all of these quotes may have been said when he was Pope, but he has always been a strong conservative and never afraid to let people know his conservative values with strong words.

"Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered to an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder."

"It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the church's pastors wherever it occurs... The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in work, in action and in law."

Above all, we must have great respect for these people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct living. On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people."

"Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies 'must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.' They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity. The homosexual inclination is however 'objectively disordered' and homosexual practices are 'sins gravely contrary to chastity.' " . .

I love my German Shepherd!

Edited October 13, 2007 by Premed_Jakey

[hyperdulia again]

[quote name='Premed_Jakey' post='1401765' date='Oct 13 2007, 04:18 PM']I love my German Shepherd![/quote]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1401677' date='Oct 13 2007, 10:48 AM']Ok, I got the adjectives wrong, but BOTH are disordered.[/quote]
Cmom,

Your original comment was fine, because the term "homosexuality" can refer to either the objectively disordered inclination, which -- although it is not a sin -- is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil, or the term "homosexuality" can refer to homosexual acts which are -- as the Church has always taught -- intrinsically disordered in their finality ([i]telos[/i]).

God bless,
Todd

Edited October 13, 2007 by Apotheoun

[Jaime]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1401770' date='Oct 13 2007, 04:32 PM']Cmom,

Your original comment was fine, because the term "homosexuality" can refer to either the objectively disordered inclination, which although it is not a sin, is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil, or the term "homosexuality" can refer to homosexual acts which are -- as the Church has always taught -- intrinsically disordered in their finality ([i]telos[/i]).

God bless,
Todd[/quote]

No it was not

This is exactly why the Church clarified its position and made clear the differences. By encouraging a "oh same difference" mentality you are encouraging ignorance on the topic.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1401774' date='Oct 13 2007, 02:37 PM']No it was not

This is exactly why the Church clarified its position and made clear the differences. By encouraging a "oh same difference" mentality you are encouraging ignorance on the topic.[/quote]
hot stuff,

You and I have gone through this many times before, and we will never agree. I consider your position untenable, because you try to confuse matters by making a disordered sexual inclination, which is a consequence of the ancestral sin, into a subsisting positive quality in a man.

God bless,
Todd

Edited October 13, 2007 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

As I said several years ago:

There is no such thing as [b]being[/b] "gay," and so a man must never be reduced in his subsistent reality to the disordered inclinations that afflict his mind ([i]nous[/i]) and will (i.e., the [i]gnomic will[/i], and not the [i]natural will[/i] which remains unaffected by the ancestral sin). The homosexual inclination, like other disordered inclinations (e.g., pedophilia and ephebophilia, or kleptomania and other compulsive disorders), does not exist ontologically; instead, it is a "pathological constitution" [1] of the mind ([i]nous[/i]) and [i]gnomic will[/i], caused by the fall of man from grace. Moreover, the Church teaches that the homosexual inclination is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil, and so although the condition is not in itself a sin, it is not to be thought of as benign, morally neutral, or worse, as a "good." Instead, the homosexual condition must be seen for what it is, i.e., a relative absence of the good in the [i]gnomic will[/i] of the creature, and so no one [b]is[/b] "gay." [2] That being said, the Magisterium holds that some human beings are afflicted with homosexual tendencies, and those who experience these disordered desires are to strive to overcome them by the power of God's grace. As a consequence, no one may ever identify himself with this, or any other, moral privation, and when discussing this issue it is vital that a Catholic avoid the politically correct terminology of modern secular culture. Sadly the APA, under pressure from homosexual activists, removed this objective disorder from its category of mental illnesses afflicting man; but regardless, the Church continues to teach that the homosexual inclination, like any other disordered inclination, is a disorder of the mind ([i]nous[/i]) and [i]gnomic will[/i] caused by the fall. Therefore, a Catholic must be resolute in teaching the truth about man as it has been revealed in Christ Jesus, and must not fall into the error of describing this pathological disorder with the politically correct terminology of modern secular humanism.

NOTES:

[1] See the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith's instruction, [u]Persona Humana[/u], no. 8; as the CDF instruction explains, "A distinction is drawn, and it seems with some reason, between homosexuals whose tendency comes from a false education, from a lack of normal sexual development, from habit, from bad example, or from other similar causes, and is transitory or at least not incurable; and homosexuals who are definitively such because of some kind of innate instinct or a pathological constitution judged to be incurable." In some individuals this disordered inclination, which is a mental (psychological) disorder related to the fall, may take on characteristics that cause it to perdure over time, but it remains a disorder nonetheless and must not be thought of as an essential component of a man's nature.

[2] See the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith's instruction, [u]Homosexualitatis Problema[/u], no. 3; I note with sadness that after the publication of the instruction [u]Persona Humana[/u] some people began to teach that the homosexual inclination itself was not objectively disordered, but that only homosexual activity was to be described as disordered. Now in order to clarify this mistake the CDF stated the following: "Explicit treatment of the problem was given in this Congregation's [u]Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics[/u] [[i]Persona Humana[/i]] of December 29, 1975. That document stressed the duty of trying to understand the homosexual condition and noted that culpability for homosexual acts should only be judged with prudence. At the same time the Congregation took note of the distinction commonly drawn between the homosexual condition or tendency and individual homosexual actions. These were described as deprived of their essential and indispensable finality, as being [i]intrinsically disordered[/i], and able in no case to be approved of (cf. n. 8, 4). In the discussion which followed the publication of the Declaration, however, an overly benign interpretation was given to the homosexual condition itself, some going so far as to call it neutral, or even good. Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder. Therefore special concern and pastoral attention should be directed toward those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not."

See the thread entitled: "[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=32721&view=findpost&p=589345"]Gay Catholics[/url]"

[hyperdulia again]

I didn't advocate ONE heresy on the Gay Catholics thread!