Gay Cancer

[Jaime]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1401276' date='Oct 12 2007, 12:40 PM']You seriously believe that? It had nothing to do with it???

And when it comes to disordered, heterosexuals and homosexuals are NOT in the sameboat. Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered, in that it is not a natural relationship. It has nothing to do with original sin which affects everyone equally.[/quote]


Sorry Cmom, I love you but I have to correct you

Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. Homosexuals are not. THAT is Church teaching

And no the APA did not get swayed by the homosexual lobby. The criteria for the disorder was not working.

[photosynthesis]

This disease is something I wouldn't wish on anyone, regardless of what they did. We have no way of knowing whether or not this is something God has brought into the world as a punishment for sexual immorality. Without knowing this, it is best not to speculate into such matters. Blame accomplishes nothing.

One of my professors in college is an internationally renowned expert in African 'click' languages. Most of the time, he teaches at Universiteit Stellenbosch in South Africa, but for a year he was doing some sort of fieldwork at my college and taught Linguistics and Xhosa. He used to tell us that he thinks that most of the 25 African languages he speaks are on the brink of extinction--not just because of globalization but because AIDS is killing off so many women and children, and so indigenous cultures & languages won't be passed on.

[hyperdulia again]

o my

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1401285' date='Oct 12 2007, 01:52 PM']Sorry Cmom, I love you but I have to correct you

Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. Homosexuals are not. THAT is Church teaching

And no the APA did not get swayed by the homosexual lobby. The criteria for the disorder was not working.[/quote]
Nope.
Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered because the affections are going against natural order of male-female attraction. The inclination is not sinful, only the acts are, but the general nature of the attraction is disordered.

[Jaime]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1401643' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:46 AM']Nope.
Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered because the affections are going against natural order of male-female attraction. The inclination is not sinful, only the acts are, but the general nature of the attraction is disordered.[/quote]

Again that is not what the Church teaches. Inclinations or desires are not intrinsically disordered only actions. The clarification is important

From the Bishops Pastoral letter on Homosexuality

[quote]Explicit treatment of the problem was given in this Congregation's "Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics" of December 29, 1975. That document stressed the duty of trying to understand the homosexual condition and noted that culpability for homosexual acts should only be judged with prudence. At the same time the Congregation took note of the distinction commonly drawn between the homosexual condition or tendency and individual homosexual actions. These were described as deprived of their essential and indispensable finality, as being "intrinsically disordered", and able in no case to be approved of (cf. n. 8, $4).

In the discussion which followed the publication of the Declaration, however, an overly benign interpretation was given to the homosexual condition itself, some going so far as to call it neutral, or even good. Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.[/quote]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1401648' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:06 AM']Again that is not what the Church teaches. I[b]nclinations or [u]desires[/u] are not intrinsically disordered only actions.[/b] The clarification is important

From the Bishops Pastoral letter on Homosexuality[/quote]

Saint Matthew 5:28

"But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Christ sees no difference between lusting after a woman with ones mind and actually lusting with her. It's no different for the homosexuals the desire for homosexuality is a disorder and sinful just so is acting it out.

[Jaime]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1401657' date='Oct 13 2007, 10:52 AM']Saint Matthew 5:28

"But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Christ sees no difference between lusting after a woman with ones mind and actually lusting with her. It's no different for the homosexuals the desire for homosexuality is a disorder and sinful just so is acting it out.[/quote]

If you folks want to continue to confuse intrinsically disordered with objectively disordered, I will continue to correct you with the teachings of the Church

[KnightofChrist]

It is not natural and goes against God for a man to sexuality desire men, and it is very sinful.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1401643' date='Oct 13 2007, 07:46 AM']Nope.
Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered because the affections are going against natural order of male-female attraction. The inclination is not sinful, only the acts are, but the general nature of the attraction is disordered.[/quote]
Cmom,

You are correct.

God bless,
Todd

[XIX]

Looks like Jamie is right:

Here's the Catechism:
[quote]Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, [b]tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."[/b] They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. [b]This inclination, which is objectively disordered,[/b] constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.[/quote]

Homosexual inclination = objective disorder
Homosexual act = intrinsic disorder

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='XIX' post='1401674' date='Oct 13 2007, 01:37 PM']Looks like Jamie is right:

Here's the Catechism:
Homosexual inclination = objective disorder
Homosexual act = intrinsic disorder[/quote]
Ok, I got the adjectives wrong, but BOTH are disordered.

[XIX]

Exactly. Both are disordered.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1401229' date='Oct 12 2007, 05:37 PM']i wish people would start trying to defend the OT instead of denying it. perhaps then real debate can start.[/quote]

No one here is denying the events of the Old Testament. You are making an unreasonable extrapolation: you are saying that just because there is a resurgence of this disease in gay men (even though the disease can and does affect all kinds of people) this means that it is a divine punishment [i]a la[/i] Sodom and Gomorrah.

Let's remember that sodomy was only one of the sins that was going on regularly in those two cities, that they had already been called to repentance, and that God would have saved the entire population for the sake of ten righteous people (a minyan, the traditional number of people needed for communal prayers in the Jewish tradition]. It wasn't an arbitrary punishment that fell on homosexual people purely because of their homosexual acts. It was a just punishment that fell on unrepentant people because of their lack of repentance.

[Jaime]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1401677' date='Oct 13 2007, 12:48 PM']Ok, I got the adjectives wrong, but BOTH are disordered.[/quote]

The adjectives are extremely important

[hyperdulia again]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1401643' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:46 AM']Nope.
Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered because the affections are going against natural order of male-female attraction. The inclination is not sinful, only the acts are, but the general nature of the attraction is disordered.[/quote]

*rings bell* she's right!